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Old 08-10-2014, 12:41 PM
 
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Anyways, I have a question. Is it possible to essentially find out if a system will pass or not pass the title V without doing the actual test? For instance if a system is currently working, but old. A decision on whether to simply sell the property knowing you would have to spend big bucks ot fix the septic, or just rent it out.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudship View Post
Anyways, I have a question. Is it possible to essentially find out if a system will pass or not pass the title V without doing the actual test? For instance if a system is currently working, but old. A decision on whether to simply sell the property knowing you would have to spend big bucks ot fix the septic, or just rent it out.

Yes, simply download a copy of the Title V law, read it, esp. the section on Title V inspections, and see if your system meets any of the failed criteria...

The thing is, even if you system does not fail, according to the criteria of the law; you have to find a Title V inspector who will follow the law, and not impose stricter criteria, simply to fail you, so that he and his friends in the industry make big bucks off of you.

To avoid this scam, I recommend finding a Title V inspector who does not rebuild systems, and who is from another part of the Commonwealth.

Also, another way, is to find a company that rebuilds systems, but who does not do Title V inspections, and ask them to come by and see your system to see if they think a rebuild would add value to your property...what they would do would be the basic steps of a title V, without filing the papers....

But if you do not read the law, the whole of it, you are ripe for being ripped off...

If you know the law, the crooks will shudder when speaking with you, and run away from any offer to hire them to do the inspection or rebuild your system, because they know that they are defrauding the public and to what limits they can go without being caught. Their basic modus operandi is to get you to agree to allow them to falsely fail you, or to rebuild your system without necessity. That way they cannot be charged with fraud.
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MikePRU View Post
The seller actually has two years to bring the system into compliance. The state's website actually has a great FAQ page on Title V. I believe this is it:

Septic Systems/Title 5 | MassDEP

So, failing the test doesn't really put them "under the gun" so to speak.

As you say though, failing Title V happens all the time and any competent real estate agent and real estate attorney can guide you through handling such a situation.



Cesspools can still pass but it doesn't happen often. Most people hear cesspool and just go right ahead and install a new system. You really don't want a cesspool though as already stated.



This is not true. The law only states that the seller must have performed Title V in order to pass title. If the system fails Title V then the system must be brought into compliance within two years of failing the test. Title can still pass if the test is failed, but it would be exceedingly difficult to find a lender which will give you a conventional load on a house with a bad septic system. Mostly homes with failed systems pass title through a cash deal or a construction loan.
No sensible person will buy a house and give the seller 2 years to "fix" the system. If a system fails, the buyer has the right to ask the seller to fix the issue or walk away. I would recommend walking away
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:45 AM
 
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Tigerclaws....In such cases, the buyer and seller can place terms in the purchase and sale agreement, whereby the costs for the rebuilt are indicated and the monies for the rebuild are put in escrow, payable only to the company to rebuild. The reason for the state provision of 2 years, is that it is not always possible according to MA weather to rebuild a system within the normal 60 day period prior to a conveyance of title...

But yes, you are correct, if this or some other similarly secure method is not followed, a buy should take caution, unless he offers less for a property, knowing that he will have to pay out of his own pocket the expenses of a rebuilt.

Yet it remains a seller's perogative to sell the house as is, so that even if it fails, he is under no obligation to rebuild; the buyer must know that he cannot live in the house till the rebuild is done...though...
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Old 09-23-2014, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Needham, MA
8,547 posts, read 14,012,666 times
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Originally Posted by tigerclaws View Post
No sensible person will buy a house and give the seller 2 years to "fix" the system. If a system fails, the buyer has the right to ask the seller to fix the issue or walk away. I would recommend walking away
How the buyer wants to handle a failed Title V inspection and what the law is are two separate issues. I was merely shedding some light on what the actual law behind the inspection is because there was some incorrect information being given out.

As far as your advice about running for the hills when a system fails inspection . . . well I'm not so sure that I would personally agree with that advice. If a system fails and the seller refuses to do anything about it, then absolutely you should run for the hills. Partly because it's nearly impossible to find a bank who will lend you money to buy the house with a failed septic system so you'd just be wasting your time. Also, you should run because the offer you made I'm sure was based on your assumption that the septic system was working. I would love to buy a house that has a completely failed Title V and needs a brand new system so long as I'm not the one paying for it.

I advise all my seller clients who are on septic to have a Title V inspection performed prior to the house going on the market whenever possible. It just causes way too many headaches when the septic fails in the middle of a transaction.
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Old 09-25-2014, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Columbia SC
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I left MA (2000) when Title V was just getting rolling. The one think I noticed in the North Reading/Andover general area was all the inspectors seemed to be in cahoots with the companies that were replacing the systems. In one case the inspector was on the town council and owned a company that replaced septic systems.

There were quite a bit of shenanigans surrounding Title V inspections and system repair/replacements.

Hope this has changed.
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Old 09-25-2014, 07:50 AM
 
Location: North of Boston
3,686 posts, read 7,422,687 times
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Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
Hope this has changed.

No, it has not changed.
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Old 09-25-2014, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Needham, MA
8,547 posts, read 14,012,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
I left MA (2000) when Title V was just getting rolling. The one think I noticed in the North Reading/Andover general area was all the inspectors seemed to be in cahoots with the companies that were replacing the systems. In one case the inspector was on the town council and owned a company that replaced septic systems.

There were quite a bit of shenanigans surrounding Title V inspections and system repair/replacements.

Hope this has changed.
I agree that it's a MAJOR conflict of interest to have the inspectors be the same folks who repair/replace the systems. It's a serious flaw in the system and really should be addressed if possible. It's almost as stupid as having a buyer's agent's commission as a % of the sale price of the home.

I haven't personally seen any shenanigans (next guy that says shenanigans is getting pistol whipped!) but most of my work tends to be in towns with sewer systems. This being said . . . every house I've listed with private sewer has passed Title V without issue.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:49 PM
 
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Am in my parent home, built in 1963. It has original septic system. Never any issues. Never required servicing. In Massachusetts. Will have to sell home in ? 1-2 years from now. Reviewing title 5 info,all new to me. Who inspects for title 5? Appreciate above info. How long is it good for? Any info that may assist would be appreciated. Thank you
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Old 09-15-2017, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Needham, MA
8,547 posts, read 14,012,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine L. Pare View Post
Am in my parent home, built in 1963. It has original septic system. Never any issues. Never required servicing. In Massachusetts. Will have to sell home in ? 1-2 years from now. Reviewing title 5 info,all new to me. Who inspects for title 5? Appreciate above info. How long is it good for? Any info that may assist would be appreciated. Thank you
The companies that service septic systems perform the Title V inspections. You'll find a lot of the answers you seek here:

Septic Systems/Title 5 | MassDEP

My biggest concern with a house that old is what kind of septic system the house has. If it's a cess pool, those pretty much never pass inspection.
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