Mass Save energy audit ? (loans, townhouse, water heater)

[bakecake]

Anyone have perosnal experience with massSave , the 'green' project by the state of massachusetts?

[MikePRU]

We were just talking about it the other day. Check out this thread:

//www.city-data.com/forum/bosto...ssessment.html

[Parsec]

I have used them on 3 separate occasions. First time, I got an interest-free loan from them to install a new high-efficiency furnace. Second time, they replaced all the light bulbs in my house with CFLs and sealed my attic with 50 cans of Great Stuff - all for free. Third time, they blew insulation into all the exterior walls of my house. The price was 25% of actual cost which was about $400. 3 very good experiences. They are highly subsidized by NStar via a surcharge that shows up on everyone's bill, so you might as well use it since you're paying for it already.

[Dennis Bishop]

They are a 2 edge sword. Some good some not so good. National Grid, as NStar outsources the entire oversight and operation to CSG out of westboro.

On the good side they do provide some excellent savings, power strips, light bulbs and air sealing. All of which were free of charge.

On the down side, they don't have oil burner licensed technicians but claim they have certifications that comply with industry standards. They have also received a waiver from the MassDOQE as they only perfomr "safety testing" on furnaces not "efficiency testing". Bull! When they go near a furnance if something goes array u want a licensed experienced tech. I tossed the first group as they wanted to drain the furnace and having shut off the emergency shutdown switch. None of which was necessary.

Also, make sure you completely understand blwoing in cellulose in the attic. The amount they blew in rendered that section of the attic unuseable. Also, ensure if you have motors or fans up there that they are especially covered from the cellulose fibers that can adversely affect their running which happened in our case.

Ensure you understand which banks in your neck of the woods that STILL offer macro or micro loans. A micro is for work under $2k and only lasts 18 months. The macro can be stretched out over 7 years. Window replacement is good but what they really provide is an amount that you can finance on a loan. They called it a "voucher" but it was only good for financing a small protion of window replacments ($500.00) but at least that part is on a no interest loan. Call the bank that does masssave loans to make sure they still do it as the list mass save provided was out of date. CSG loan coordinators weren't even aware that a bank in our area had ceased issuing mass save loans.

Just an aside on windows as the voucher is "number of windows" based. A bay or bow is considered 3 windows (a picture & 2 dlb hungs). There is also an exclusion on the voucher if I recall correctly that indicates if the window is already a dbl pane a vocuher won't be issued.

If you accept the paid for work, there is also a % of the work that you need to pay upfront as part of the going foward.

If you don't select a contractor to perform they work they will assign one. You are better off finding one on the list of contractors you provide so you can do some research on them in advance.

There is nothing wrong with receiving $200 in bulbs but understand that these are the warm up types so if you need instant light, just let them put the bulb in and when they leave, remove it and put the other one back in. This way you have what you need and now a spare.

[mmyk72]

My townhouse is newer (2005 built) and I had a Mass Save energy audit just after moving in last year. The guy that came out first went to the basement, took out some insulation at the sill to see the outside pipe penetrations and stuffed them right back. I wish he spray foamed or something around the pipes but nope, just a courtesy check of sorts. He also went up to the attic, didn't do much and said my insulation thickness is fine (which I knew since the previous owner had added an extra layer of blown in cellulose). I heard others got someone who spray-foam the penetrations for them, but mine only ducked his head in to 'observe'.

He went around to change out the non-CFL light bulbs (mostly BR30) that I hadn't yet. I didn't know this was included so bought some myself already. I didn't have dimmable bulbs so he gave me GE branded ones that take awhile to light up to full brightness, but at least they don't buzz. I got 6-7 bulbs total. Another positive thing is he checked the CO levels in the exhaust for the furnace and water heater (both gas).

One thing that puzzled me was at the very end (I mean last 5 min), he pulled out his thermo camera. I mean... what's the deal, why was he saving that and using it so sparingly!! It would've been great to have that as he walked from room to room earlier. He only used it on my entry doors which I knew were drafty. It would've been good to know if there are other places where heat is leaking, wouldn't it?

SO, I wasn't impressed with my energy audit. Perhaps given my house is newer, there wasn't much improvements to start with. But sounds like for older houses, this is a great deal.

[cwaggy]

Auditors get $1 for every CFL they install so let the guys make some money while they are there. Also, they get $3 for each thermostat they leave but $10 if they install it. They can install two and leave more one for each zone. If yo have more than 2 zones I'd pay them the $10 cash each and have them install it. Same thing: $1.00 bonus for power strips. The air sealing is free but the auditor gets a 2% commission for signing you up for it and 2% for selling you insulation. Get the free air sealing and the attic stair dome is free - that is a deal. The combustion safety test is required for every audit but you can insist they NOT do it but if you want air sealing or insulation, you will have to get it done or no deal. CSG destroyed an industry (insulation) and created and empire, their own. Just avoid Next Step Living - they are HACKS and worse.

[EdQuinn]

Be very careful with Mass Save make sure you fully understand what is being done how and who. Get contractor license numbers upfront and be prepared to be at home when the work is being done. Everything they offer has value till something goes wrong then look out.

Just try and get them on the phone or obtain the info after you have a problem. The individual companies are not as reputable as the program. Also make sure for your protection they pull a building permit when it is required this will also protect you from unlicensed companies doing work on you home.

Here is a link to some photo's I took this week of a friends home that used MassSave to have insulation blown into their walls. The disaster that has resulted will cost thousands to repair in cleaning costs. Cellulose is fine in walls but the chemicals make it a hazard for direct human contact which is why the people installing it wear tyvek suits and respirators.

EQuinn56's Library | Photobucket.

Any work done on your home not done correctly costs you more money then you ever intended to spend so please dot the i's and cross the t's and if the contractor does not provide you with the info upfront run and find some one else.

[dravogadro]

Originally Posted by EdQuinn

Be very careful with Mass Save make sure you fully understand what is being done how and who. Get contractor license numbers upfront and be prepared to be at home when the work is being done. Everything they offer has value till something goes wrong then look out.

Here is a link to some photo's I took this week of a friends home that used MassSave to have insulation blown into their walls. The disaster that has resulted will cost thousands to repair in cleaning costs. Cellulose is fine in walls but the chemicals make it a hazard for direct human contact which is why the people installing it wear tyvek suits and respirators.

EQuinn56's Library | Photobucket.

How did that cellulose get into that room like that?

I didn't think people were still blowing cellulose into walls anymore.... ?

[EdQuinn]

Mass Save did an energy audit and recommended that the insulation be added they had a program where they pay part and the owner pays part. They assign a contractor who showed up a week later and did the install. The problem arose when the plaster wall gave way and they continued to pump the Cellulose into the room and down the hall of the second floor. They apparently were not monitoring their equipment at the time and never checked after it was taking so long. They did not even check after they completed as a family member was there the entire time and the house was open so they could inspect. Unfortunately no one went upstairs until later that evening to find the disaster. They since have had to move out for 8 days and the house had to be cleaned top to bottom including all of their cloths, Carpets, furniture everything. Their homeowners has stood behind them and is going after the contractor now to recover $10,789.00 to cover the clean up.

They needed to find a specially cleaner licensed to clean up a toxic event per the insurer. If they "knew this could have happened to this extent They never would have done this". It has been a nightmare for them

[tribechamy]

Yikes. Thank you for sharing, we were planning on having this done soon. Is there any way to discreetly share what contractor this was or any other info that could prevent this happening?