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Old 06-29-2020, 12:47 PM
 
7,942 posts, read 7,863,802 times
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I don’t think we’re going to see public schools reopen in Mass. Both the teachers union and DESE have taken stances that are well beyond what can be provided.

https://d279m997dpfwgl.cloudfront.ne...idance-vFF.pdf
see page 14
“Staffing alternatives to consider for reducing class sizes: Specialist teachers and other educators such as instructional coaches, reading specialists, and others who have appropriate certifications may be enlisted to serve as additional core teachers to reduce class sizes in schools. “

Uh...so a “reading specialist” that suddenly gets certified to teach math in school school is a high school math teacher? So wait...this happens AFTER you laid off teachers? This is going to tick off the unions. To lay off qualified staff and then to be replaced with those without experience is a slap in the face in any employer. What is this...GM?

Which is countered by the Mta saying that the MCAS should not only be delayed but outright dissolved
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/06/...xploit-crisis/

Seriously...look the MCAS aren’t the big fun thing but they were made in mass and it isn’t coming down from the feds. Not all states have a test that has been done like this and it serves as a great equalizer among districts as a metric of performance. If we toss out the MCAS it makes it much harder to find out where schools let alone students rank. You need a guide point in order to see how well you are doing and to get rid of this is foolish.

If they both back down on these issues they can get some work done.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:47 PM
 
Location: North of Boston
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My wife is an elementary school teacher in a Boston area town. Trust me, they are reopening.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:53 PM
 
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They would be ridiculous not to re open. It will be different, there might be a surge but there isn’t now in Ma.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
3,979 posts, read 5,810,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
“Staffing alternatives to consider for reducing class sizes: Specialist teachers and other educators such as instructional coaches, reading specialists, and others who have appropriate certifications may be enlisted to serve as additional core teachers to reduce class sizes in schools. “

Uh...so a “reading specialist” that suddenly gets certified to teach math in school school is a high school math teacher? So wait...this happens AFTER you laid off teachers? This is going to tick off the unions. To lay off qualified staff and then to be replaced with those without experience is a slap in the face in any employer. What is this...GM?

Districts throughout MA and even the nation have been doing this for decades already. They force early retirements on pricey experienced teachers and then do not backfill the positions but instead hire substitute teachers or paraprofessionals who have no certification in the subject and earn less money to do the same job. This is not new. I sincerely doubt that is not going to stop school re-openings.
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Old 06-29-2020, 10:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Districts throughout MA and even the nation have been doing this for decades already. They force early retirements on pricey experienced teachers and then do not backfill the positions but instead hire substitute teachers or paraprofessionals who have no certification in the subject and earn less money to do the same job. This is not new. I sincerely doubt that is not going to stop school re-openings.
Right but without the MCAS that's going to be hard to argue to go back to. It's not like the SAT's where colleges agreed. This is the union itself and not any school district.

This gets complicated as not all teachers want to go back, not all feel safe let alone the staff. We have more guidance as a state for restaurants than education.

Here's something to note. The central register hasn't shown any significant repairs or remodeling to any school in the commonwealth due to covid. This shows what public bids that have to be required of 50K or more. So if the buildings are the same.... NY has said that malls can open if and only if the filtration system gets less than one micron for filtration. We haven't seen the same push.

When I mean going back I mean the district says that ALL students are required to go back to class for instruction and online would not count. DESE's measures clearly say that is only one option of 3. If school districts don't make legit plans in the next month the state will not provide funding.

Keep in mind there's not going to be field trips, no school sports (which pretty much limits much of scholarships for next year), no after school activities, probably no clubs etc.So what are they going back to exactly?

Naturally it's easier for upper grades to do things online. But there flat out is not enough expertise to get designing the facilities easier. Check the minutes of school committees. CT is in the same boat as there's really no guidance at all. To get an actual architect in a school and then use plans to refurbish a facility and get that done by the last week of August is impossible. Even if you waive a few requirements there's just not enough contractors.
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Camberville
15,898 posts, read 21,520,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
Right but without the MCAS that's going to be hard to argue to go back to. It's not like the SAT's where colleges agreed. This is the union itself and not any school district.

This gets complicated as not all teachers want to go back, not all feel safe let alone the staff. We have more guidance as a state for restaurants than education.

Here's something to note. The central register hasn't shown any significant repairs or remodeling to any school in the commonwealth due to covid. This shows what public bids that have to be required of 50K or more. So if the buildings are the same.... NY has said that malls can open if and only if the filtration system gets less than one micron for filtration. We haven't seen the same push.

When I mean going back I mean the district says that ALL students are required to go back to class for instruction and online would not count. DESE's measures clearly say that is only one option of 3. If school districts don't make legit plans in the next month the state will not provide funding.

Keep in mind there's not going to be field trips, no school sports (which pretty much limits much of scholarships for next year), no after school activities, probably no clubs etc.So what are they going back to exactly?

Naturally it's easier for upper grades to do things online. But there flat out is not enough expertise to get designing the facilities easier. Check the minutes of school committees. CT is in the same boat as there's really no guidance at all. To get an actual architect in a school and then use plans to refurbish a facility and get that done by the last week of August is impossible. Even if you waive a few requirements there's just not enough contractors.

Many businesses are sending out notifications that while they allowed for people to take care of children from home during the shut down, that will not be allowed in the coming weeks. Many more people are not able to work from home compared to what it looked like when schools shut down in March.


If there is no school in the fall -even a stripped down version of school - that's a really scary reality for many families who cannot afford or cannot find full time childcare for elementary and middle school kids who need to be homeschooled.


That alone is a big motivation for the state to push for face to face school.
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Old 06-30-2020, 01:42 AM
 
24,575 posts, read 18,410,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
Districts throughout MA and even the nation have been doing this for decades already. They force early retirements on pricey experienced teachers and then do not backfill the positions but instead hire substitute teachers or paraprofessionals who have no certification in the subject and earn less money to do the same job. This is not new. I sincerely doubt that is not going to stop school re-openings.
Please cite one Massachusetts city or town where this has happened. The state budget crisis may trim the subsidies to poor school districts but I’m reading about cuts to non-core slots like music and art. The place that gets hurt most is special education in the poor school districts where such a large fraction of students aren’t at grade level.
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:45 AM
 
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Given tenure rules you can't just get rid of a teacher and hire a new one. If it is not a core class they might get rid of the subject. Are you aware of how long it can take to get rid of a tenured teacher? The hearings and litigation can drag on. It takes near ten days to prove a teachers strike. Unless there's some serious misconduct it's nearly impossible.

I've personally been on boards with superintendents and they can't find a single case of that. Are you sure you mean a teacher and not a paraprofessional?


[quote] Many businesses are sending out notifications that while they allowed for people to take care of children from home during the shut down, that will not be allowed in the coming weeks. Many more people are not able to work from home compared to what it looked like when schools shut down in March./QUOTE]

Can you name or show an example. MORE people are able to work home from now versus March because the March and April period had significant Supply shortage. Logitech for example was sold out many of its webcams for months. Ppes were in short supply, not all school districts had chromebooks. Even the poorest and remote districts have access.

Opening up means potential litigation that districts can't afford. Again no exchange students, no sports, no clubs, no musical instruments (especially woodwind), no chorus, no field trips etc. Take a look at the regulations for public buildings VS private homes. Dese and dcamm come to mind. Even if work continued in the fall you have to have CORI checks.

Dese says you have to allow for online education. They are *not* mandating that every student returns. If that is the case teachers must accommodate that. So if some kid with a compromised immunity can stay online why can't others? Think about how many children are raised by their grandparents that are at least 40-60 years older than them. I have an elderly neighbor I haven't seen in a month because she doesn't want to be exposed.

Imagine the opposite of an antivaxxer that's the mentality.
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Old 06-30-2020, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
3,979 posts, read 5,810,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Please cite one Massachusetts city or town where this has happened. The state budget crisis may trim the subsidies to poor school districts but I’m reading about cuts to non-core slots like music and art. The place that gets hurt most is special education in the poor school districts where such a large fraction of students aren’t at grade level.

Boston. I was one of those substitute teachers at one time . I was definitely not the only one though. Special ed. is one particular area acutely affected. There's supposed to be a para available at all times in the classroom ,especially LAB clusters, but no there wasn't always. What I learned was that teachers were cheaper than school police and administrators and substitute teachers were cheaper than teachers. They need to keep the schools open so they'll do anything to keep students and inexpensive staff in school. That is also why they need students and teachers to physically report back as the O.P. references or else the overhead for running school buildings gets too expensive. Now do you see why so many parents don't send their kids to the BPS if they can help it?
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Camberville
15,898 posts, read 21,520,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post

Can you name or show an example. MORE people are able to work home from now versus March because the March and April period had significant Supply shortage. Logitech for example was sold out many of its webcams for months. Ppes were in short supply, not all school districts had chromebooks. Even the poorest and remote districts have access.

But who is going to take care of them?


My point is that employers are not all going to continue to be understanding of childcare needs at home and, short of another shutdown, many more people will be working outside of the home in the fall.


My brother and SIL's company (thousands of employees - they work in different offices but both can do their job 100% from home) sent a memo last week saying that as of August 1, company policy reverts back to 'typical' work from home policies - if you are working from home, you cannot be providing childcare. That may work in the fall if kids are home for high schoolers, but it's not going to work for an elementary schooler. If childcare is an issue, they have been told they can take an unpaid leave of absence but their job is not guaranteed when they return.



I don't know what my work's plan will be, but our WFH policy also states that we cannot have child or eldercare duties during our working hours. I suspect my workplace would make allowances as we are now, like many would, but that's not going to be universal - especially as more and more businesses need to make cuts.
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