9 Boston police officers arrested in connection with overtime fraud scheme (loan, cost)

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Bettafish

And you failed to argue why we can't in this case.

You are the one proposing dramatic change here. Shouldn't the burden be on you to prove that it is an effective and doable solution? Being able to google the percentage of government workers in Japan (which occupations are we even talking about here???) who do not receive OT, does not demonstrate you have a handle on the topic in any shape of form. Your credibility is diminishing by the post here.

[Bettafish]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Not even an attempt to answer my question? Wow. Nobody here asked anything about some totally irrelevant apples to oranges comparison, such as IT or finance workers. This is strictly about emergency services ie. police, fire/EMS, etc. in the public sector. If you can't put together an informed argument for even the most elementary of issues to contend with, then I have no reason to believe you will be capable of answering the far more complex issues around your proposal.

I already told you how things can work, and you failed to point out why it cannot work in a similar way for police departments.

Now let me ask you again. Why can't there be a relatively higher base salary and eliminate OT?
Answer me directly.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by Bettafish

What is the connection between human rights and OT of government employees?
I know logic is not your strength but this is still quite ridiculous.

Also China is just an example. In Japan, according to a survey in 2018, 54% government employees have to work 20 hours OT or more every week. And there is no compensation for that.

Yes, let's do logic. How is an authoritarian regime's treatment of their employees relevant to this discussion about police in Boston? Similarly, why do you wish to impose Japan's practices on government employees here? How will it improve policing?

[Bettafish]

Originally Posted by massnative71

You are the one proposing dramatic change here. Shouldn't the burden be on you to prove that it is an effective and doable solution? Being able to google the percentage of government workers in Japan (which occupations are we even talking about here???) who do not receive OT, does not demonstrate you have a handle on the topic in any shape of form. Your credibility is diminishing by the post here.

Oh what I described works in private corporations, and works in PDs of other countries. All true.

Now please tell me why American cops have to have OT. Give me some concrete reasons please. Not just to list a bunch of useless facts which everybody knows.

[Bettafish]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

Yes, let's do logic. How is an authoritarian regime's treatment of their employees relevant to this discussion about police in Boston? Similarly, why do you wish to impose Japan's practices on government employees here? How will it improve policing?

I am not wishing anything, I am suggesting there are ways to eliminate the OT thing.
We don't like the endless OT scandals from police officers. And if you have no solution, I suggest some big change. This is a forum so we can show all kinds of alternatives.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Bettafish

I already told you how things can work, and you failed to point out why it cannot work in a similar way for police departments.

Now let me ask you again. Why can't there be a relatively higher base salary and eliminate OT?
Answer me directly.

This topic is about policing, and no you did not explain how this could work in a police department. Your far out ideas of paying bonuses by number of arrests and cases solved, is laughable at best.



Start by answering this question, then we will go from there.

Originally Posted by massnative71

In the event that you have any idea of what you are talking about (which I am not seeing so far), I probably have a thousand questions for you. Let's start with something very basic. Suppose a police department has officers doing a range of 45 hours a week to 105 hours a week on average at the extreme ends, with the average cop working 56 hours a week on average over the course of the year. How would you calculate and determine this new "universal base salary" you are proposing? Off of 56 hours? 105 hours? 45 hours? Depending on how you answer that, will help me determine whether it is worth discussing this further with you.

[bostongymjunkie]

Because it's more costly to have enough police officers online to handle every emergency, or investigation or special event. Because officers are out injured and sick and retired or leaving for other jobs. Because there are collective bargaining contracts. Because public safety is unpredictable. Because officers need to appear in court. That doesnt mean OT doesn't need to be properly managed, it means it's needed. Just because you hear about OT scandals doesn't mean the entire system needs to be scrapped it means certain areas need improvement. That said, never found a perfect organization. But if you're going to declare that police should be treated the same as office workers it helps to have an understanding of what they actually do and how the agencies actually run on a day to day basis. You don't.

[Bettafish]

Originally Posted by massnative71

This topic is about policing, and no you did not explain how this could work in a police department. Your far out ideas of paying bonuses by number of arrests and cases solved, is laughable at best.



Start by answering this question, then we will go from there.

I already successfully refuted what you said there.

Many careers require OT and irregular hours. The usual (non-government) way is to make the compensation reasonable and transparent. So raising the base salary (but not flat or universal) and eliminating OT is a good solution.

Now tell me why it won't work, in your opinion. Be specific.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Bettafish

I am not wishing anything, I am suggesting there are ways to eliminate the OT thing.
We don't like the endless OT scandals from police officers. And if you have no solution, I suggest some big change. This is a forum so we can show all kinds of alternatives.

The alternative is one word. ACCOUNTABILITY. There are departments throughout the country, who have managed to not have this abuse while still using OT to fill open shifts and unanticipated workloads.



Do you even know a damn thing about policing in China, or is Google just trying to bail you out tonight?

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Bettafish

I already successfully refuted what you said there.

Many careers require OT and irregular hours. The usual (non-government) way is to make the compensation reasonable and transparent. So raising the base salary (but not flat or universal) and eliminating OT is a good solution.

Now tell me why it won't work, in your opinion. Be specific.

I'll start to answer your question, when you answer mine.