Massachusetts Question 1 "Right to Repair" (title, ranked)

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by Lampert

At minimum you change oil and filters very often. Breaks are used less in an EV because your car "breaks" by default as soon as you stop pressing on the accelerator so you actually use the break pedal less.
Then again, it's not me saying it, there are plenty of articles about it.

There are EV drivers getting 150K+ out of a set of pads. A of the easy consumables tasks (e.g., oil/coolant/trans oil, brake pads, etc.) will either go away or frequency reduced greatly.

In the northeast, corrosion will likely force replacements before proper end of life.

Inde repair shops aren't going away, but they will be squeezed in 10-20 years when traditional ICE vehicles phase out.

[Boston_Burbs]

100% yes, I hate auto dealers as much as I hate malls and big box stores. The sooner they go out of business the better.

We all should be able to buy are car from Amazon and fix it wherever.* Which is why Tesla got banned, ironically in mostly Red States.

*I only buy cars on craigslist. I trust a private citizen and my local mechanic way more than dealers.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/513/129-cars Worth a listen, one of my favorites.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by Boston_Burbs

100% yes, I hate auto dealers as much as I hate malls and big box stores. The sooner they go out of business the better.

We all should be able to buy are car from Amazon and fix it wherever.* Which is why Tesla got banned, ironically in mostly Red States.

*I only buy cars on craigslist. I trust a private citizen and my local mechanic way more than dealers.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/513/129-cars Worth a listen, one of my favorites.

You hate big box stores but you want Amazon to have your new car business? Nothing like feeding the oligarchs, huh?

[sunguy13]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

You hate big box stores but you want Amazon to have your new car business? Nothing like feeding the oligarchs, huh?

What a great statement...Amazon is a big box store..You just don't see them. The way they are automating, a lot of jobs will get destroyed..And most people are completely ignoring that. Yet, they believe they are concerned for the small guy.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by sunguy13

What a great statement...Amazon is a big box store..You just don't see them. The way they are automating, a lot of jobs will get destroyed..And most people are completely ignoring that. Yet, they believe they are concerned for the small guy.

Few, if any, believe Amazon serves the 'small guy'. Consumers simply prefer the services they offer and prioritize they're time/buying experience over maintaining the existing retail infrastructure and jobs.

A decade prior it was Walmart, and prior to, Sears. Economy of scale was capturing markets well before Amazon. No an Amazon apologist, but I do understand why they have massive market capture.

[mdovell]

every 10 to 15 years there seems to be some enemy of small businesses. First it was proximity to the highway system, then there was your malls, then with your box stores and now it's Amazon.

If you take a look at smartphones and computers and general there are advantages to having an open or closed system. These debates go back decades if not Generations. The old Activision lawsuit against Atari or vice versa pretty much said that you could have third parties. But at the same point what happened back then is there was no testing for quality and a bunch of bad software hit the market back in 1983 which pretty much took out the whole industry. A few years later Nintendo came in with a closed system which pretty much meant that they had complete say on everything.

If we looked at iPhones vs Android we see a similar argument. The ecosystem of Apple is entirely by Apple and until recently there was not that much questions about the App Store process. Android allows nearly anything on it. It allows for a cheaper consumer market and I can make a strong argument to say that if it wasn't for Android Apple prices would be much higher and we probably wouldn't have made as much in terms of advancement. Having said this though the fragmentation of the Android market is evident once you start looking at the marketing. You got different versions of the Android system alongside different capabilities of the phones and then different software that's already been installed. Where is it Apple you know 100% that this make and model is exactly what it was from Apple.

A long time ago I bought a car and the dealership went out of business which sold the warranty to another place. At one point I had to go in and ended up going in three times to fix a problem. The check engine light came on they're able to turn it off. The second time they said they couldn't find out what it was and that they could guarantee that they could take it off. This means that it makes it much harder to pass emissions which gets a rejected sticker which makes it much harder to get insurance. I was livid.

On a side note of this which is a little bit interesting is that the state of Connecticut in Tesla have it fighting each other. Tesla does not have dealerships. Dealerships have very specific rules in terms of how they are run and inherited and the relationship that they have the manufacturer. Tesla has direct employees of the Tesla company. Dealerships have been trying to break into the Tesla Market is part of conditions for selling in Connecticut.

Psychically speaking when I get car worked on I just want to see it fixed and I usually go to an independent mechanic to do it and he's very honest about what goes on and his rates are very good. I really don't want to go to a dealership to get something fixed even if it's with all "official parts". I can respect that some people might be busy or they just don't know mechanic and I go to a dealership for work I'm fine with that but you can't force people to go to a dealership to get something fixed.

[unit731]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

You hate big box stores but you want Amazon to have your new car business? Nothing like feeding the oligarchs, huh?

Actually an amazing twist of thought processes.

[BostonMike7]

I know it's too late to change anyone's minds here, but the way this has been worded by both sides is terribly misleading.

Here's how it would play out in the real world from someone who actually swings wrenches on a car (as a hobby) and knows their way around a vehicle computer. As with most things political, many of the people voting on such things don't actually understand how they work.

When your check engine light comes on, you can go to ANY repair shop now, or buy a code reader off Amazon and connect a cable up to your car and read the engine code. P3001 for example. Cylinder 1 misfire. With that info, you can begin troubleshooting. That's a simple code that someone can even troubleshoot without a computer, but i'm trying to simplify this example. There are far more complex codes, like for instance if your Auto Park function on your vehicle no longer works, and the code for that tells you the steering angle sensor is faulty. You can certainly troubleshoot it without hooking up to the computer, but it's going to be HARD.

Starting in 2022, some vehicles are beginning to move to over the air wireless data linkup. Say your check engine light comes on in this vehicle. You can still go to your fav repair shop but he's going to tell you ha cannot connect to the car's computer to help him troubleshoot the issue. He tells you he has no way to pull that code. Or if you are a DIYer, you go on Amazon, and see there is no reader available to pull the code yourself.

Voting Yes, makes that all open source which allows 3rd party entities to create devices to access that data. So in 5-10 years you can go on Amazon and buy a device that will connect to your car and allow you to continue to pull codes and troubleshoot. Or your independent repair shop can buy a computer to allow him to troubleshoot.

You can still go to ANY repair shop and get your brakes done, shocks, a squeak, etc. But connecting to the computer will make troubleshooting MUUUUUUCCCH easier, and will allow them to make specific repairs. For example, I replaced the steering rack on my '14 Ford. The rack needs to be programmed to work. If I did not have software that allowed me to interface with the vehicle's computer to program the steering rack module, there would be no way I could do this repair myself. So a $400 used rack and a few hours of my time would turn into the $2500 job the dealer quoted me on if I, (or a independent repair shop) didn't have access.

They aren't going to pull your address. They aren't going to pull your credit card data. Nobody is going to take over your brakes or steering. This isn't the movies, stuff doesn't happen like that. Hell, I know how to "hack" into a car with my laptop and I can't even do that. I can find out where you live because you saved it in your GPS though

Yes makes sense. No doesn't really make a whole lot of sense unless you own a dealership.


It's after 8pm anyway...so can't change your vote either way

[Shrewsburried]

It appears question 1 will win with a large margin.

I'm disappointed question 2, the RCV ballot, didn't pass. However, given the lack of clear messaging by it's boosters and Governor Baker's opposition against, I knew the odds were not favorable.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

It appears question 1 will win with a large margin.

I'm disappointed question 2, the RCV ballot, didn't pass. However, given the lack of clear messaging by it's boosters and Governor Baker's opposition against, I knew the odds were not favorable.

We have it in Maine, you do NOT want it in Mass., thankfully the voters saw right through it. Congrats on #1.