MA to ban sale of new ICE cars by 2035 (Boston: apartments, renters)

[BostonMike7]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...35/ar-BB1co4x2



I have mixed feelings on this one. I think market demands are headed this way regardless of any laws in place. I don't foresee a ban as being necessary. Every day, I see more and more Teslas and other EV's on the road. People want them. I personally wouldn't be against buying an EV, and even prepped my garage with the wiring for a charger in the future.

On the flipside, I don't think 14 years is enough time to mature EV tech to expand it to larger SUV's and Pickup trucks, as well as expand the infrastructure, but maybe i'll be wrong. I can just foresee an issue where a family wants to load up their Tahoe and attach the boat on the back and take it deep into Maine. Will other states follow suit, or will people be forced to go up to NH to buy an ICE vehicle? There are a lot of other "what-if" scenarios I can think of.

I have to admit, that 10 years ago I would be angry with the thought of no more ICE vehicles when Pruis's and Volt's were the norm. But after driving a few Teslas in Ludacris mode...I think I could be convinced to get over it.

[GeoffD]

If there were 250 kw rapid chargers everywhere, I'd change technology if it didn't cost more. I could live with charging +200 miles in 10 minutes. Tesla is close to that.

[MikePRU]

Glad I don't own a gas station in this state.

[robr2]

Originally Posted by MikePRU

Glad I don't own a gas station in this state.

Gas stations aren't about selling gas. They want you inside selling you soda, lottery, and food where they really make money. Most will continue to sell gas and other items along with electricity. Gas cars will be on the roads for decades to come albeit in lower and lower numbers.

As for the 15 year timeline - look at what Tesla and the automakers have done in the last 15 years. The technology will only continue to improve exponentially.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by robr2

Gas stations aren't about selling gas. They want you inside selling you soda, lottery, and food where they really make money. Most will continue to sell gas and other items along with electricity. Gas cars will be on the roads for decades to come albeit in lower and lower numbers.

As for the 15 year timeline - look at what Tesla and the automakers have done in the last 15 years. The technology will only continue to improve exponentially.

Additionally, every major manufacturing has a full electric fleet in R&D. The boutique brands like Mazda are lagging and, without a pivot or buyout, might not survive the shift.

[brightdoglover]

When I saw the heading about "ICE cars," I first thought it was cars that the federal agency ICE uses, and thought, huh?

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...35/ar-BB1co4x2



I have mixed feelings on this one. I think market demands are headed this way regardless of any laws in place. I don't foresee a ban as being necessary. Every day, I see more and more Teslas and other EV's on the road. People want them. I personally wouldn't be against buying an EV, and even prepped my garage with the wiring for a charger in the future.

On the flipside, I don't think 14 years is enough time to mature EV tech to expand it to larger SUV's and Pickup trucks, as well as expand the infrastructure, but maybe i'll be wrong. I can just foresee an issue where a family wants to load up their Tahoe and attach the boat on the back and take it deep into Maine. Will other states follow suit, or will people be forced to go up to NH to buy an ICE vehicle? There are a lot of other "what-if" scenarios I can think of.

I have to admit, that 10 years ago I would be angry with the thought of no more ICE vehicles when Pruis's and Volt's were the norm. But after driving a few Teslas in Ludacris mode...I think I could be convinced to get over it.

I feel similarly to you. I believe that these "bans" are really targets designed to put pressure on manufacturers to shift gears (intended...) and can (and will) be modified with exemptions, extensions, etc. as it becomes clearer that the timeline is unrealistic for all sales.

The car development process alone takes 3-5+ years from concept to sitting on the showroom floor. That doesn't leave a ton of time for manufacturers to create reliable, consumer-ready EVs across all vehicle classes. Then there's the issue of production. Material acquisition for EVs has been an ongoing issue due to the supply of many of the metals. Can that be addressed in a way that both allows for dramatically increased production while simultaneously reducing costs (to the manufacturer and subsequently to the consumer). I'm not sure how easy it is to modify a plant to go from ICE assembly to EV assembly, but that'll have to happen on a large scale (along with the construction of new facilities) to accommodate the increased production required to hit this target in MA and other states.

If money weren't a concern, I would have considered a Tesla when I bought a new car in Sept., but what I wanted in terms of range and features cost more than I was willing to pay. I also worry about the infrastructure and practicality of charging for many. Until we get to the point where people can charge their EV fully (for 250-300+ miles of range) in 10-15 minutes, home charging is going to be essential. But it's not workable for many in MA. There are hundreds of thousands of drivers in multi-unit buildings in MA who either park on the street or in driveways, lots, and garages with limited/no charging capacity. One of the biggest issues with the Tesla for me (apart from price) is that I'd be really worried about driving to ME or VT in the dead of winter (dealing with Friday after work rush hour traffic) with my girlfriend and all of our gear. I don't want to be stressing about a rapidly depleting range, and I also don't want to have to stop at a charger for 30 minutes. I think we're getting closer with both faster charging capabilities and longer ranger, but we have a ways to go and 15 years isn't a ton of time.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by lrfox

But it's not workable for many in MA. There are hundreds of thousands of drivers in multi-unit buildings in MA who either park on the street or in driveways, lots, and garages with limited/no charging capacity. One of the biggest issues with the Tesla for me (apart from price) is that I'd be really worried about driving to ME or VT in the dead of winter (dealing with Friday after work rush hour traffic) with my girlfriend and all of our gear. I don't want to be stressing about a rapidly depleting range, and I also don't want to have to stop at a charger for 30 minutes. I think we're getting closer with both faster charging capabilities and longer ranger, but we have a ways to go and 15 years isn't a ton of time.

Those are all very good points. While I see the market shifting to EV, I think at this current time, pure EV's tend to be almost more of a luxury, vs a true practical vehicle. Most owners I personally know with a true EV have them garage, and take them on short drives around metro Boston. When they want to escape for the weekend, tow a jet ski, go to HD and pick up a load of lumber, head to the upstate ME for the weekend the have an ICE SUV they can hop in.

But your point about apartments, and on-street parking, is a good one, and what I was getting at when I said 14 years for the infrastructure to be in place isn't really a long time. Those multi-unit apartment buildings don't know what sort of infrastructure they need to prep for. A charging station at each parking space? If so, who builds those? Who pays for those? How does one predict if their apartment unit will need such capacity by 2035, or if they can delay until 2040 due to demographics and likelihood of renters all owning brand new vehicles, vs 10 year old models?

And what do you do about on-street parking? If you live in an apartment and cannot get a space in front of your place, where do you charge up? Are you forced to hit a quick charging station every time you take the car out, just in case?

I think the vehicle tech will vastly exceed the infrastructure tech in the next 14 years. That's going to leave a scramble when 2035 hits and people can only buy EV cars/light trucks. I can see 2028-2034 model year ICE vehicles retaining a lot of their resale value due to people unable to buy a 2035 due to lack of infrastructure.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...35/ar-BB1co4x2



I have mixed feelings on this one. I think market demands are headed this way regardless of any laws in place. I don't foresee a ban as being necessary. Every day, I see more and more Teslas and other EV's on the road. People want them. I personally wouldn't be against buying an EV, and even prepped my garage with the wiring for a charger in the future.

On the flipside, I don't think 14 years is enough time to mature EV tech to expand it to larger SUV's and Pickup trucks, as well as expand the infrastructure, but maybe i'll be wrong. I can just foresee an issue where a family wants to load up their Tahoe and attach the boat on the back and take it deep into Maine. Will other states follow suit, or will people be forced to go up to NH to buy an ICE vehicle? There are a lot of other "what-if" scenarios I can think of.

I have to admit, that 10 years ago I would be angry with the thought of no more ICE vehicles when Pruis's and Volt's were the norm. But after driving a few Teslas in Ludacris mode...I think I could be convinced to get over it.

I also have mixed feelings, it seems pretty aggressive. I am not ready to buy an EV today. I want to see the vehicle price come down, and the charging network expanded.

Mind you, I readily acknowledge that:
- Climate change is real, and poses significant threats to man and the environment
- EVs have certain advantages beyond greenhouse gas emissions - quiet, high torque, low maintenance, no street level noxious emissions for pedestrians and cyclists
- EVs are likely to dominate in any case in time, just due to market forces
- Both EVs and the charging network are evolving fairly quickly. But is it quick enough?
- Numerous other nations have already announced such plans, so it's not like the USA would be the first

Eliminating the sale of ICE vehicles is a significant step. If they even said 20 years for the cutoff instead of 15, I'd feel better.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

I think the vehicle tech will vastly exceed the infrastructure tech in the next 14 years. That's going to leave a scramble when 2035 hits and people can only buy EV cars/light trucks. I can see 2028-2034 model year ICE vehicles retaining a lot of their resale value due to people unable to buy a 2035 due to lack of infrastructure.

Like everything else (almost), the closer we get the further the can will be kicked down the road.


I truly wish we could find a way to balance long term planning and goals, with having politicians to not be able to pass things that won't really have impact during their terms (so they won't be accountable, but can take credit).



As do I wish capitalism could be made to actually work, wherein execs receive compensation based on long term gains (heck those stock options, you need to not be able to execute them for decades and your bonus is based on profits 5-10 years from now).



But hey, dreams are just that.