Unpermitted Construction in MA (Brockton: for sale, 2014, houses)

[BoredAtWork22]

Hello all, this is my first post on CityData.

I am not originally from MA so I'd like to get some insight - I have been looking at entry/mid level homes and am a bit perplexed at the seemingly nonchalant attitude towards unpermitted additions in this market. This state has small houses and I can see that many families are using basements, garages, and attics as supplemental living space. Many houses only have a 2nd bathroom or 3rd bedroom because of these converted spaces.

I have been searching permit histories for houses I am looking at, and over half of the finished basements for sale in my area have no permit history, some are untaxed but others actually do show the basement on the tax card. The listing agents play dumb and the buyers agents shrug their shoulders. I am seeing the same thing with a lot of finished attics (which is even worse since that sq footage is often part of the GLA). In both cases, a lot of these areas have visible code violations like skinny staircases and tiny windows. I was under the impression that unpermitted construction was a big red flag but these houses are selling in 1 day and I'm worried that I am making a mistake by walking away from these homes.

I have been talking to some locals about this and the overarching sense seems to be that many of houses are so old that it is basically impossible to meet current codes, so the homeowners just do it unpermitted. This is almost a scarier thought because then it would be impossible or extremely expensive to get a retroactive permit.

Is this something that is only reflected in the older/cheaper homes or is the high end of the market the same way? What would your advice be for someone who can barely afford a house to begin with, and then has to worry whether their house is even legal? Or, am I just being a puritan?

[gf2020]

You answered your question in the last sentence.

[BostonMike7]

Unpermitted is par for the course in a state that technically requires a permit to change a toilet.

Unless it’s brand spanking new construction, you are likely to find something unpermitted in any house you look at. Up to you to do your due diligence as it doesn’t necessarily mean the work was done poorly.

[johngolf]

What happens inside a house, stays in the house.

In my last home in MA, I had the cellar/basement refinished (not for bedroom use which I think plays a role) and the question of needing a building permit never came up. Were we wrong?

[brightdoglover]

Originally Posted by johngolf

What happens inside a house, stays in the house.

In my last home in MA, I had the cellar/basement refinished (not for bedroom use which I think plays a role) and the question of needing a building permit never came up. Were we wrong?

Yes.

My former contractor in Mass. refinished his basement without permit. Removed a load-bearing column to do it and knew it. When the accessor would come to the house, he'd close the basement door.

[gunit00]

Am I the only one laughing ?

[johngolf]

Originally Posted by brightdoglover

Yes.

My former contractor in Mass. refinished his basement without permit. Removed a load-bearing column to do it and knew it. When the accessor would come to the house, he'd close the basement door.

Refinishing a basement without a permit and removing a load-bearing column are two different issues. One of them is stupidity.

[chicagoliz]

I think you can see it at all price points. We are in the midst of a major renovation -- total kitchen gut. As we were moving certain things out to prepare for making all our meals in the living room, and later on seeing what was behind all the cabinets and walls, we became convinced that the kitchen renovation the previous owners did sometime around 2014 or so was done themselves. When I was looking at the town website to see the permit history of the house, I could not find any permit issued for any sort of kitchen work or construction work anytime after about 2010. I did find a permit for a replacement of a hot water heater, but nothing else. I can't tell you the number of times we ourselves have said, or have had contractors/electricians/plumbers say to us, "Well that's weird. Why on earth would anyone do this this way?" Behind the microwave in the kitchen, they had screwed in some corrugated cardboard from a box (that still had the address label to the previous owner) into the wall, apparently to make it level with the tile backsplash. The cabinets were so crappy that the workers were able to crush them with their bare hands when tossing them into the dumpster.

It never occurred to me that the previous kitchen "renovation" would be sans permit.

[Cape Cod Todd]

The state is permit happy but in some cases it is important as in the above mention where a guy took out a load bearing support. That is dumb and dangerous.

I was in Brockton MA a few years back at the Home Depot there and I heard someone talking about how the city was sending people out to watch for toilets on the curb for trash pickup. If the house didn't have a permit to replace that toilet they would get a visit from the building inspector. There are many immigrants in Brockton and most of them have the old world attitude of fixing things yourself or they have a "cousin" that can do it. Spending hard earned money for a piece of Permission paper is foreign to them.



Speaking of "old world" there are many 100+ year homes in Mass. and the older ones have some very unique, clever, odd and down right questionable additions. The people back then used what they had to make something work. It was yankee ingenuity and it adds charm and character to an old house.

Just remember that when you are squeezing up those tight steep stairs. They don't build them like that anymore.

[gunit00]

Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd

The state is permit happy but in some cases it is important as in the above mention where a guy took out a load bearing support. That is dumb and dangerous.

I was in Brockton MA a few years back at the Home Depot there and I heard someone talking about how the city was sending people out to watch for toilets on the curb for trash pickup. If the house didn't have a permit to replace that toilet they would get a visit from the building inspector. There are many immigrants in Brockton and most of them have the old world attitude of fixing things yourself or they have a "cousin" that can do it. Spending hard earned money for a piece of Permission paper is foreign to them.



Speaking of "old world" there are many 100+ year homes in Mass. and the older ones have some very unique, clever, odd and down right questionable additions. The people back then used what they had to make something work. It was yankee ingenuity and it adds charm and character to an old house.

Just remember that when you are squeezing up those tight steep stairs. They don't build them like that anymore.

If you think think "immigrants" are the only ones avoiding permit these days, you are either ignorant or a bigot.

Also, the toilet example is laughable. They are incredibly easy to replace. No chance in hell would I pull a permit or hire out for such a task.