Is it ok to buy new construction homes? (design, builder)

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by MikePRU

I don't know anything about the Atlanta market, but I can tell you that EVERYTHING is appreciating rather quickly right now. A lot of people do tend to prefer new to used homes and home starts are WAY down compared to about 10 years or so ago. So, new houses as well as used houses are both in short supply. Building material costs have skyrocketed as well and builders are adding that into the prices. So, new construction prices have gone way up and that's dragged along "newer" houses with it.

I understand that, but as someone who is crunching numbers for DVRPC and Middlesex County NJ, if we put two homes in 2019 at a value of 100... the new construction would be worth 135 now, whereas an older stock would be 123-127 in 2022. Both appreciate and appreciate fast, however, you see slightly higher appreciation with new stock/construction because the units are more (Most) desirable, there is likely more 21st century upgrades and usually, the same units are still being built by the developer for nearly 60-80% more than they were in 2019.

[r_p]

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

I understand that, but as someone who is crunching numbers for DVRPC and Middlesex County NJ, if we put two homes in 2019 at a value of 100... the new construction would be worth 135 now, whereas an older stock would be 123-127 in 2022. Both appreciate and appreciate fast, however, you see slightly higher appreciation with new stock/construction because the units are more (Most) desirable, there is likely more 21st century upgrades and usually, the same units are still being built by the developer for nearly 60-80% more than they were in 2019.

But in 2019 the brand new house was already a good chunk (30-50%) more than one built 25 years ago. So effectively the new one now is 80% more compared to the value of the older house in 2019 whereas the older one only increased by ~25%.

I don't think that's the case in Boston suburbs. Most folks I know would rather compromise on the house for a better town. However, I do know some folks, e.g., some Asians, who absolutely will pay a premium for a new house and the direction it faces.

[Strannik33]

OP, regardless of what you read above -- and with respect to the posters before me -- the quality of residential construction is greatly DECREASING, not increasing. The houses built today are put together with the cheapest materials that satisfy the building code. And the building code provides the minimum standards, not the best practices for home construction. A well-built home will exceed the code, not "meet" it. Neither you nor your inspector could do anything about that, unless you build a truly custom house.

Examples? I was shocked to find that plastic water pipes were used in a new condo we were considering. I suppose we cannot afford copper now. Instead of dimensional lumber (2x10's, etc.), glued-together engineered lumber is used, which can be easily damaged by water. Instead of plywood, we often have OSB -- wood chips set in glue, etc., etc.

And don't get me started on black windows that somebody thought was cute, on allergy-exacerbating carpets instead of hardwood floors, on ridiculous two-story atriums that suck up the heat, on open-floor plans that make the house look like a furniture store. . .

I also want to live in a new house, but I'm afraid, the shiny surfaces are an illusion. I believe in MA the best overall quality was achieved in the late 1990s, and I'd be looking at the houses built at that time, if possible.

[mdovell]

Back in the early nineties my parents bought a place that was knew I had to be frank there was just issue after issue. The decks needed more support there was a lighting issue there was an issue with the sliding glass door and various upgrades and updates had to be made to make it continue to be livable. A retaining wall made of wood we had to replace with stone. Steps had to be replaced because water would go around stone and he rode was underneath it making it uneven etc.

Last year I bought a home and I can tell you that no not everything is perfect but at least I can generally understand what needs to be done by examining what the prior owners have.. It's a little bit harder to do that with a newer home.

I'm not saying that a new home will automatically mean significant updates and upgrades but you have to understand if all they make is new homes you might as well just contact the prior owners of the portfolio to get a realistic expectation of what's to come.

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by r_p

But in 2019 the brand new house was already a good chunk (30-50%) more than one built 25 years ago. So effectively the new one now is 80% more compared to the value of the older house in 2019 whereas the older one only increased by ~25%.

I don't think that's the case in Boston suburbs. Most folks I know would rather compromise on the house for a better town. However, I do know some folks, e.g., some Asians, who absolutely will pay a premium for a new house and the direction it faces.

IMO the 90's and the 80's were two of the worst decades for home construction in recent history. Remember in the 90's when some houses were being built too tight, restricting airflow and occupants were getting ill from it? That's not a house I'd like to live in.

What's so bad about plastic water piping and engineered lumber? An engineered i-beam is stiffer than the traditional lumber that would be used in it's place.

[mmyk72]

Originally Posted by Strannik33

Examples? I was shocked to find that plastic water pipes were used in a new condo we were considering. I suppose we cannot afford copper now. Instead of dimensional lumber (2x10's, etc.), glued-together engineered lumber is used, which can be easily damaged by water. Instead of plywood, we often have OSB -- wood chips set in glue, etc., etc.

And don't get me started on black windows that somebody thought was cute, on allergy-exacerbating carpets instead of hardwood floors, on ridiculous two-story atriums that suck up the heat, on open-floor plans that make the house look like a furniture store. . .

Plastic piping as in PEX is not bad. Copper pipes are much more expensive (just cuz copper got pricey) but not necessarily better.

Dimensional lumber is not a bad material. Builders can cheap out by spacing them too far to cut cost. Like the brand new construction that my cousin lived in. The floor felt bouncy when I walked on it - I'm not even that heavy.

When I look at houses, those built in the 80's and early 90's look cheap - low end kitchen and bathroom cabinets, cheap looking plastic shower enclosures, carpets everywhere, bland looking fascade, minimal closet spaces and electrical outlets, etc.

My house was built in mid-2000. After living in it last 10 yrs, I feel the construction is solid and has the right feel - everything opposite what I said above except for the plastic shower which I do have.

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by mmyk72

Plastic piping as in PEX is not bad. Copper pipes are much more expensive (just cuz copper got pricey) but not necessarily better.

Dimensional lumber is not a bad material. Builders can cheap out by spacing them too far to cut cost. Like the brand new construction that my cousin lived in. The floor felt bouncy when I walked on it - I'm not even that heavy.

When I look at houses, those built in the 80's and early 90's look cheap - low end kitchen and bathroom cabinets, cheap looking plastic shower enclosures, carpets everywhere, bland looking fascade, minimal closet spaces and electrical outlets, etc.

My house was built in mid-2000. After living in it last 10 yrs, I feel the construction is solid and has the right feel - everything opposite what I said above except for the plastic shower which I do have.

I agree. It's not so much the materials that are in use today. It's the person deploying them.

80's and 90's homes also had really minimal finish carpentry in them. Most houses I walk into from those decades don't even have crown molding and many of those that do had it added more recently. Living in an 80's built home myself, I can say that the 80' and 90's were pretty bland eras of construction. No detail work at all in many of those houses.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by MikePRU

IMO the 90's and the 80's were two of the worst decades for home construction in recent history. Remember in the 90's when some houses were being built too tight, restricting airflow and occupants were getting ill from it? That's not a house I'd like to live in.

What's so bad about plastic water piping and engineered lumber? An engineered i-beam is stiffer than the traditional lumber that would be used in it's place.

Absolutely - engineered lumber is straighter and stiffer than dimensional lumber, and in cold climates, the flexibility of PEX plumbing allows it to expand if the water inside freezes, unlike copper plumbing, which will burst.

[robr2]

Much of what was criticized in a recent post would be solved by a little education.

PEX pipe is pretty much the standard now for residential plumbing. Done right, a line can go from the central manifold right to the fixture in one shot with the ability to turn off each fixture right at the manifold - no joints that could fail and as noted it can freeze without bursting.

Particle board aka Oriented Strand Board comes in a number of flavors. What you see in housing is designed specifically for the job. AdvanTech flooring and sheathing is water resistant and can be left exposed for hundreds of days in some cases. Their Zip System of sheathing that has an integrated moisture and air barrier.

LVL beam and LSL lumber are able to carry much higher loads than dimensional lumber and they come straight and true unlike dimensional lumber.

My FIL was a builder in the 60's and 70's. When plywood first came out, he pooh-poohed it as he was used to using one by planks for siding and roofing. Once he started using it, he saw the benefit. He thought house wrap was nuts - good old felt paper was what he used. He eventually came around. When he used his first nail gun while helping my BIL, he was astounded at the time savings. He's probably in heaven mad that he didn't get to use some of the new cordless framing guns.

[mojo101]

My plumber replaced my copper pipes with PEX pipes after they burst,they are better .
With new house,you get ceramic tiles in the bathroom ,you get a fireplace,powder room,water heater/furnace.A/C in the attic,not the garage.
You get attached 2 car garage ,which is the standard,more electric outlets,some come with fixtures and ceiling fans so you dont have to buy them yourself.
Bushes and trees in front lawn,a small patio in the backyard.
Kitchen comes with stove and micro wave,double sinks,better cabinets.
Some even come with fridge ,washer and dryer,ventian blinds