Massachusetts is America's Smartest State (crime, elementary school, costs)

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by newenglandgal123

Education related topics get some folks really fired up in this state (no pun intended) https://www.wcvb.com/article/parent-...setts/42246936

Ha. Pressure cooker town. Probably pays a ton to live there and isn't getting the results he thought he would from his kids.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Oh there are plenty of anti education people around, plenty in goverment. They disguise their contempt by veiling it with terms like they're against "indoctrination" or "liberal brainwashing", aka actually learning how to critically think, logic (Aristotle must have been a socialist), and not pushing white washed history, etc. is a threat to their positions and beliefs.

Education is basically "the teaching of things that are true" and indoctrination is "the teaching of things that aren't true". Not everyone agrees on what is true enough to be taught in schools and in a democracy there will be a struggle to define what is truth. Generally things like math, reading, grammar, and most science are perfectly acceptable. They object to thing that you might consider 'truth' but they think of as 'your opinion', say things like climate change, or systematic racism, or the acceptance of nontraditional sexualities. And the response is typically a 'focus on the 3Rs' and not so much that "Aristotle must have been a socialist'. (It wasn't those on the right that have been trying to cancel Aristotle)

The bigger issue in the Deep South isn't so much that they don't want their own kids educated or that they object to critical thinking, it's that they don't want to pay for everyone else's kids and they don't want the government to run it. Many back in Louisiana pay far more than my annual property tax bill to send their kids to nice, well-run private schools. Those schools may have more religion than a school here but can be very good. They understand education is important at an individual level, but less so at a societal level. (There are also plenty who don't value education at all, both there and in MA).

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

Education is basically "the teaching of things that are true" and indoctrination is "the teaching of things that aren't true".

A true education teaches people how to learn and teaches them critical thought. High wage jobs require those skills. Rote education really only applies to repetitive task jobs that pay very little.

[timberline742]

I dont see education in that way. Education isn't just about teaching facts, or math, or science (which changes rapidly). It's just as much teaching how to learn, how to critically think, logic (which is why I brought Aristotle in), etc. And yes, I know lots of people don't value that, and plenty even see it as a threat to their power.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by timberline742

I dont see education in that way. Education isn't just about teaching facts, or math, or science (which changes rapidly). It's just as much teaching how to learn, how to critically think, logic (which is why I brought Aristotle in), etc. And yes, I know lots of people don't value that, and plenty even see it as a threat to their power.

There's an echo in here.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

There's an echo in here.

Sorry, I was typing and editing on a phone when you posted

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by timberline742

I dont see education in that way. Education isn't just about teaching facts, or math, or science (which changes rapidly). It's just as much teaching how to learn, how to critically think, logic (which is why I brought Aristotle in), etc. And yes, I know lots of people don't value that, and plenty even see it as a threat to their power.

I agree. Now I've heard enough people say that they teach you a bunch of stuff in college/grad school that you'll never use - I believe that happens for some people, but I have used probably 80% of what I learned in college and grad school, in various jobs. Moreover, grad school and research helped teach me how to learn, and I have subsequently taught myself many other subjects that have enhanced my job performance in interdisciplinary environments and allowed me to work in many different roles. There hasn't been any subject I couldn't learn, and I chalk that up to the experiences in higher education - I would never have been able to do this without that experience.

Obviously some people are hostile to education, but they'll never convince me of the evils (or irrelevance) of education - it's done so much for me in my own life.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

I agree. Now I've heard enough people say that they teach you a bunch of stuff in college/grad school that you'll never use - I believe that happens for some people, but I have used probably 80% of what I learned in college and grad school, in various jobs. Moreover, grad school and research helped teach me how to learn, and I have subsequently taught myself many other subjects that have enhanced my job performance in interdisciplinary environments and allowed me to work in many different roles. There hasn't been any subject I couldn't learn, and I chalk that up to the experiences in higher education - I would never have been able to do this without that experience.

Same for me. Thankfully. Even with just a BS I went into my first position and while I couldn't contribute substantially to the discussion right away, I understood the scientific merits of the different perpsectiives being discussed/debated. It was empowering in a way. I think I would totally be disillusioned if I couldn't connect my education with my work. I feel rather sad for those people, honestly.

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

Obviously some people are hostile to education, but they'll never convince me of the evils (or irrelevance) of education - it's done so much for me in my own life.

Absolutely. I was very fortunate to be born into a family that valued education so much.

[massnative71]

Several pages now accusing others of anger and hostility towards education??? Guess I missed that part here. You folks really can't help yourselves sometimes. Let's see what else we can fabricate.

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Same for me. Thankfully. Even with just a BS I went into my first position and while I couldn't contribute substantially to the discussion right away, I understood the scientific merits of the different perpsectiives being discussed/debated. It was empowering in a way. I think I would totally be disillusioned if I couldn't connect my education with my work. I feel rather sad for those people, honestly.

You must really feel sad for people who dropped out of high school or had no money or means to go to college.

Glad to see you use your valuable education here to argue with people and berate them.