"Gritty" urban areas. (Boston, Worcester: section 8, apartment complex, rent)

[wenzit420]

this is a good thread. towns get a bad name and it is hard for those places to break those labels. If U aren't an idiot, you can usually avoid most of the B/S. This coming froma guy who had his 2500 scooter stolen from his front yard today. But this is also in Richmond Va. MASS here I come again!!!

[missionhill]

One difference between now and the Jane Jacobs era is that then, within the fields of city planning, architecture, and urban policy, "slum" was considered a verifiable condition that could (and should) be alleviated through such measures as urban renewal for the greater good. And so you had the West End Clearance, the Washington Park (Roxbury) Urban Renewal Area, and others. Every city did it, none more than New Haven. Now, 50 years later, those professional fields are now more likely to be champions of whatever fragments of diversity and difference remain in our urban areas after all the decades of emptying out, suburbanization, and gentrification. People in general have their prejudices and use terms like ghetto without much reflection--twas ever thus. The real change is in the professional discourse. And these days, the slums (in the sense of overcrowded, poor, substandard) hardly exist in this country, but Brazil's favelas certainly meet the standard, as do irregular developments in many countries.

[redpanda]

Originally Posted by brightdoglover

I don't like anyplace with streetwalkers, drunks and junkies on the street, and gangs of menacing-looking young men loitering around glaring. This is not diversity, it's poor and dysfunctional, and its opposite is not lily-white Quichetown.
I noticed a friend who liked the local transvestite hookers on his street (made him feel "authentic and not middle class") changed his tune the second he had a mortgage and kids.
Different incomes, difference ethnicities, lively street life? You bet. Public failure and dysfunction, no.

Exactly. There are quite a few places I no longer wish to live now that I have a son I plan to send to public school. I value diversity of all types (income, ethnicity, etc etc.) but would not want to send him to school someplace where he'd be competing for a teacher's attention with students who were sent to school without breakfast.

There is a large difference between an area with lively street life with some lower income residents and an area with dirty, ill-kept streets and apathetic residents.

[clevedark]

My kids' public school has a significant number of low income students and breakfast is served before school so everyone is prepared. At the same school there are a significant number of students from rich families.

So it can be done.

[HenryAlan]

Originally Posted by clevedark

My kids' public school has a significant number of low income students and breakfast is served before school so everyone is prepared. At the same school there are a significant number of students from rich families.

So it can be done.

Yep, that sounds like the school my kids attend. Mixed income, mixed ethnicity, mixed levels of external support. Breakfast is served everyday, free to all who want it. It is not disruptive at all, and my children receive a very solid education. They like the school, they like learning, and I am quite pleased to say my kids attend a BPS school.

[TheSprite]

Boston is a city that suffers from gentrification - or putrification, as I like to call it. Whatever slums remain have rents that even the yuppiest of yuppies can't afford.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Lowell and New Bedford are two of the more prominent examples (though there are plenty of others) I can think of off the top of my head. I have seen both of these places labeled slums without any evidence to support the statements. The fact is that both of these communities are home to large immigrant populations and contrary to belief, they benefit greatly from the ethnic diversity. They both have tons of historical value (and the museums and sites to go along with that history) as well as thriving artist communities. There are a number of restaurants, night spots, performing arts, etc. They also happen to be some of the most affordable areas to live in Massachusetts, AND they have lower crime rates than cities like Boston and Providence. So what makes these places "slums" or "ghettos"?

I can tell you that walking the cobblestone streets of downtown New Bedford on a Friday night and looking at buildings preserved the way they were in the 1800s, smelling the variety of food being prepared at the wide array of restaurants in the area, watching the crowd who just left a New Bedford Symphony Orchestra perfomance pile into a new Martini bar/lounge, and listening to the 20-somethings talk excitedly as they're waiting to have their IDs checked at the door of their favorite watering hole is an absolute pleasure. This sentiment is not limited to the Whaling City; the same pleasures can be had in many places in Boston and the rest of Massachusetts that are labeled slums.

My point is that not every desirable area has to be a polished, lilly-white yuppyville. A little "Grit" can make an area far more intriguing and desirable than a place without it. New Bedford's immigrant population has a bad reputation and is the subject of a lot of negative sentiment. However, it's the working class, immigrant population that gives the city character and makes it a fascinating, unique place to be. Were it not for that population, the city would lose much of what makes it different. Again, this is not only limited to New Bedford.

This is a very old post but I'll quote it and have my say...

I was born in New Bedford. My summer home where I intend to retire eventually is in an adjacent middle class/upper middle class enclave where I grew up that is a bit more than a mile walk to the first housing project. I like New Bedford. I grew up with it back when downtown was still the shopping center pre-Mall. My dad grew up in the North End a couple blocks from Brooklawn Park pre-WW II back when it was a bit more middle class and prosperous place. I have lots of friends who live in the city. Big chunks of the North End, the West End, and the southern tip of the South End are nice middle class neighborhoods. The downtown area is very vibrant with a lot of arts, music, and theater. Would I park on the street with something valuable visible in the car? No. Do my New Bedford friends lock their doors and take the normal precautions against property crime? Of course. I'm a 6'2" guy. I can walk anywhere in the city and not worry about my safety. A woman at night in the more iffy parts of the city? Nope.

I love the whole Portuguese/Azores influence of the city. I buy my linguica, chourico, and pre-cooked cacoila at the Salchicharia and seafood at Demello's in the Cove. I buy my steaks at Giammalvo's over by Weld Square. I'm in The End Zone and Antonio's on Coggeshall Street frequently eating Portuguese food. I know to avoid Market Basket on the first of the month but that's otherwise my go-to grocery store. And then there's the Sid Wainer's Outlet with gourmet food and produce. The Feast. All the events every weekend on the waterfront. What's not to like?

My only problem with New Bedford is the school system. The city needs enough K-12 charter schools to meet the demand where engaged parents want to put their children who want to learn in schools separated from the disruptive children who don't want to learn. If you fix that, it's a livable city for families. The economic problem of the city is the totally awful transportation mess to access metro-Boston jobs. An express train from Downtown New Bedford to Boston South Station where you have adequate safe parking and a 40 minute train ride would make the city commutable and bring in enough skilled workers that it would be possible to consider locating high skill/high wage jobs there.

So what I'm suggesting is some of that nasty evil yuppification that got this ancient thread resurrected from the dead by someone who resents the gentrification of Boston. I view gentrification as a very good thing as long as the displaced people have somewhere to live. The problem in Massachusetts is transportation infrastructure. You have to be able to get people from the affordable housing to where the jobs are. Europe and Asia do the right thing. The United States other than New York City and DC doesn't.

[SoggyFroggy]

Fantastic thread. My thanks to the original poster and everyone who has contributed. This thread has really got me to thinking about what I should look for as I plan to move to New England. I was reading very mixed reviews about towns such as New Bedford . Having never visited the area myself, I did not know who to believe as I read comments about these various small towns and cities surrounding Boston. I have also seen adjectives used that very well represent my own values, words I may choose to use in my search for a roommate and housing.

[rethcir]

Originally Posted by TheSprite

Boston is a city that suffers from gentrification - or putrification, as I like to call it. Whatever slums remain have rents that even the yuppiest of yuppies can't afford.

Was this post really worth reviving a 7 year old necrothread for?

[Whatsnext75]

Lol some of the gritty areas the OP is thinking of from his post in 2008 might not be so gritty anymore today.