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I'm putting this in the psychology forum because psychology factors into the situation I'm inquiring about.
I have a friend, an ex I've referred to on here occasionally. We have remained friends, mainly because we have a lot in common in many areas and he needs a friend. I think of him as a good friend and even a brother of sorts. Until I met him, I had no direct experience with alcoholism or drug abuse.
He has been sober for over 4 years now. (He was sober for over a year when I met him.) There is mental illness in the family background, and what I came to understand is that he started self-medicating at a very early age. His mother informed me after I'd known them a while that he was diagnosed with schizophrenia at age 19, but I have reason to question that actually took place. If there is a diagnosis, I would venture that it's more like borderline personality disorder because of the 9 hallmarks I experienced during our relationship.
He was raised by a severely mentally ill relative (not his mother). It deeply affects him to this day because she is still alive and still routinely causes havoc of various kinds. I hope that after she is gone he can improve, if even a little bit. His mother is better, but there is reason to believe there are some tall tales on her end as well.
I'd like to see him happier, but I do not see myself as his savior or keeper. I participate in the friendship as a wise, calm friend now that we are not together as a couple. I want to see him live a happier life but I don't know whether that can happen. Again, I know that I am not his savior. I want to make that utterly clear. I am a concerned friend.
When he becomes irrational out of nowhere, what I usually do is take longer to answer texts, and avoid direct responses to his ramblings. He often does not answer questions, even though the questions are innocuous. I know that he is incapable of a relationship because of being a loner, and needing an extreme amount of control over his life. What I finally understood in an "aha" moment is that there are times when he is literally incapable of understanding what is being discussed. It's like his brain switches off and goes into irrational mode, likely as a defense mechanism when things become too threatening to the status quo. However, there may also be a biochemical reason for the "switch-off."
Last edited by pathrunner; 10-12-2022 at 09:13 AM..
>Is this situation something a sober alcoholic must live with for the rest of their lives? I understand that everyone's biochemistry and mental health is unique, of course.
>How much does early trauma have to do with whether a sober alcoholic can learn to take better care of themselves mentally and emotionally?
>How much does the alcohol brain prevent effective cognition and the ability to see that they need help and could possibly be happier with therapy?
>Can a sober alcoholic who was completely rejected from birth by a biological father ever recover enough to love themselves and feel worthy of a good life?
>Does anyone here have experienced with this, where things improved?
What I experienced with my mother is that because of her early trauma, she flatly refused to seek therapy. This situation is the same: adamant refusal to seek therapy or take mood stabilizers.
I know I cannot control him and have no right to. These are questions.
Note: Please do not ask me why I am friends with this person, or tell me not to be his friend. That is not what this thread is about. I am clearly a friend and will remain so unless circumstances inform me that should change. I have no issue remaining friends because I know how to set strong boundaries and I enforce them.
Apologies that the above two posts are really long. It's a complex issue, as I'm sure most have experienced.
I'm putting this in the psychology forum because psychology factors into the situation I'm inquiring about.
I have a friend, an ex I've referred to on here occasionally. We have remained friends, mainly because we have a lot in common in many areas and he needs a friend. I think of him as a good friend and even a brother of sorts. Until I met him, I had no direct experience with alcoholism or drug abuse.
He has been sober for over 4 years now. (He was sober for over a year when I met him.) There is mental illness in the family background, and what I came to understand is that he started self-medicating at a very early age. His mother informed me after I'd known them a while that he was diagnosed with schizophrenia at age 19, but I have reason to question that actually took place. If there is a diagnosis, I would venture that it's more like borderline personality disorder because of the 9 hallmarks I experienced during our relationship.
He was raised by a severely mentally ill relative (not his mother). It deeply affects him to this day because she is still alive and still routinely causes havoc of various kinds. I hope that after she is gone he can improve, if even a little bit. His mother is better, but there is reason to believe there are some tall tales on her end as well.
I'd like to see him happier, but I do not see myself as his savior or keeper. I participate in the friendship as a wise, calm friend now that we are not together as a couple. I want to see him live a happier life but I don't know whether that can happen. Again, I know that I am not his savior. I want to make that utterly clear. I am a concerned friend.
When he becomes irrational out of nowhere, what I usually do is take longer to answer texts, and avoid direct responses to his ramblings. He often does not answer questions, even though the questions are innocuous. I know that he is incapable of a relationship because of being a loner, and needing an extreme amount of control over his life. What I finally understood in an "aha" moment is that there are times when he is literally incapable of understanding what is being discussed. It's like his brain switches off and goes into irrational mode, likely as a defense mechanism when things become too threatening to the status quo. However, there may also be a biochemical reason for the "switch-off."
There is a condition called PAWS (post-acute alcohol withdrawal syndrome) which can last up to two years after quitting. But it sounds more like your friend has alcoholic brain damage.
I think you could well be correct. I'm starting to lean toward that, and it makes me sad, because he wants to be happy, but he's happier being unhappy.
I'll never forget when we were having a heated discussion and suddenly it was like a light bulb went off and I realized that he couldn't comprehend my reasoning. It wasn't that he wouldn't. He couldn't.
Thanks, I'll read up on PAWS.
Last edited by pathrunner; 10-12-2022 at 09:43 AM..
According to the 6 stages of recovery, it seems to me that he is in "middle recovery." The early recovery is complete, and he functions well day-to-day and takes care of himself and his business. It's the emotional state that is unstable.
He became a non-church attending religious fanatic (black and white thinking) and a political zealot who rants against certain politicians as though things can be fixed or get better (those who know my posts know I hate discussing politics because both sides will play their endless games and it's up to us to be happy no matter what's going on).
I suspect that many of the extreme-thinking folks we see out there who are obsessed with QAnon or other political conspiracy theories are suffering from brain damage, from alcohol, drugs, lead poisoning, etc. A peek into their backgrounds tells a lot.
I agree. I think it stems from mental illness as well. "Normal" people accept that there is evil in the world and that politics is a game we have little control over. What I mean is, generally healthy people can make peace with the fact that there is a lot of evil in the world, and that politics is not really about helping constituents. I was talking with a friend about that last night. It seems to me that a lot of people who have a lot to lose financially latch on to the doomsday SHTF mentality, and they start living their lives in a state of fear.
I've tried many times to get my friend to accept that there is evil in the world, that many people are a-holes only out for themselves and to make peace with it. He can't seem to understand that it does no good to rail against it. Instead, he keeps railing against it, which is a distraction from seeking effective help. The railing does exactly as he intends: avoid facing things. It's part of the black and white thinking ("splitting"), and the idealization/devaluation syndrome. I understand that is a part of their defense mechanism. It's a vicious cycle. Through therapy as an adult, I came to understand that my mother was a control freak because of her deep trauma and insecurity. There was a point with her too, where her eyes would change and go blank and she would look like a different person for a few minutes.
I once had a conversation with a psychiatric nurse who worked at the state mental hospital. She said the first thing many patients would do while walking out of the facility was throw their meds in the trash can outside the door.
I wonder if psych meds can help with alcohol brain damage. Wouldn't seem so, but I don't know.
>Is this situation something a sober alcoholic must live with for the rest of their lives? I understand that everyone's biochemistry and mental health is unique, of course.
>How much does early trauma have to do with whether a sober alcoholic can learn to take better care of themselves mentally and emotionally?
>How much does the alcohol brain prevent effective cognition and the ability to see that they need help and could possibly be happier with therapy?
>Can a sober alcoholic who was completely rejected from birth by a biological father ever recover enough to love themselves and feel worthy of a good life?
>Does anyone here have experienced with this, where things improved?
What I experienced with my mother is that because of her early trauma, she flatly refused to seek therapy. This situation is the same: adamant refusal to seek therapy or take mood stabilizers.
I know I cannot control him and have no right to. These are questions.
Note: Please do not ask me why I am friends with this person, or tell me not to be his friend. That is not what this thread is about. I am clearly a friend and will remain so unless circumstances inform me that should change. I have no issue remaining friends because I know how to set strong boundaries and I enforce them.
Apologies that the above two posts are really long. It's a complex issue, as I'm sure most have experienced.
Speaking from personal experience....11 years sober.
Hard to say if the brain ever truly recovers, but it certainly can improve. I tried to make it happen, by engagement. Not sure what happens if you don't try.
Given that I don't feel fully recovered I expect I'll have it till the end. It could also be age related.
I take anti depressants. Had a friend who refused to take them, and he hung himself.
That's all I feel competent to answer.
Thank you, Humphrey for sharing your experience. It really helps me to understand. I do think it is partly age-related, as you said. He is in his mid-60's now. I'm glad that you take anti-depressants and that you feel at least partly recovered. So sorry about your friend.
He's never admitted to this, but I'm told by a couple of reliable sources that he did some drugs (coke) when younger (20's). He told me that his drug of choice is vodka, nothing else. I tend to believe it.
A large part of the problem is complete and total rejection by the birth father. I think that's where the lack of self-worth, bitterness and self-medication stems from.
Another large part of the problem is lack of a good sponsor in his geographical area. The area is full of alcoholism. His "sponsor" was so lame that it wasn't even worth his time. I saw how important it is to have a strong sponsor who can help facilitate getting professional help.
All in all, he functions pretty well considering. He doesn't have to rely on anyone, in fact he is adamant that he is almost completely self-sufficient. But that comes with feeling too isolated, which is not a good thing for anyone IMO.
Thank you, Humphrey for sharing your experience. It really helps me to understand. I do think it is partly age-related, as you said. He is in his mid-60's now. I'm glad that you take anti-depressants and that you feel at least partly recovered. So sorry about your friend.
He's never admitted to this, but I'm told by a couple of reliable sources that he did some drugs (coke) when younger (20's). He told me that his drug of choice is vodka, nothing else. I tend to believe it.
A large part of the problem is complete and total rejection by the birth father. I think that's where the lack of self-worth, bitterness and self-medication stems from.
Another large part of the problem is lack of a good sponsor in his geographical area. The area is full of alcoholism. His "sponsor" was so lame that it wasn't even worth his time. I saw how important it is to have a strong sponsor who can help facilitate getting professional help.
All in all, he functions pretty well considering. He doesn't have to rely on anyone, in fact he is adamant that he is almost completely self-sufficient. But that comes with feeling too isolated, which is not a good thing for anyone IMO.
My soon-to-be son in law was also rejected by his birth father and their entire family. It upsets and depresses him. The difference is, he has my daughter, who is gently supportive and makes him feel loved and worthy. He is just 24 but growing up into a happy, resourceful young man. I think "not having to rely on anyone" is probably detrimental to someone with rejection trauma in their background. I hope he finds happiness somehow.
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