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Besides how many Mexicans here are actually here doing agricultural work of any kind even at any wage? Very very few. There are actually only about 1 million jobs in agriculture and not all million are illegals. Sometime citizens of various ethnities do agricultural work, and some are here perfectly legally with green cards and H2A visas. In fact there is no cap on H2A visas.
If the open borders proponents really want cheap labor, wages so low no one can live on them, why not just bring back slavery? Precisely the same arguments can be used to justify slavery.
]Family of 3:
Mortgage: $2,600.00 a month.
HOA fee: $25.00 a month
Electric; $300.00 a month
Water: $100.00 a month
It's hard to take you seriously. I live in a mid-grade, safe, well-managed apartment complex. There are 8 one-bedroom units in my building, with 16 people living in them altogether, who have eight cars. Few are Hispanic, and if they are, they speak English well and are legal. To house the 16 of us, assuming they all pay the same utilities as I do, we pay a total of:
Rent: $3,600 a month
What does HOA mean?
Electric: $640 year round average.
Water: $120, includes pool.
Your lifestyle is costing the three of you about what a dozen people can, and do, live on here, who would be doing the kinds of work that Mexicans would do.
It's hard to take you seriously. I live in a mid-grade, safe, well-managed apartment complex. There are 8 one-bedroom units in my building, with 16 people living in them altogether, who have eight cars. Few are Hispanic, and if they are, they speak English well and are legal. To house the 16 of us, assuming they all pay the same utilities as I do, we pay a total of:
Rent: $3,600 a month
What does HOA mean?
Electric: $640 year round average.
Water: $120, includes pool.
Your lifestyle is costing the three of you about what a dozen people can, and do, live on here, who would be doing the kinds of work that Mexicans would do.
Ooooh, you got me on that one...not!
Well, lets see. I'm pretty sure that I could find a double wide here in Phoenix for the amount that you are paying in Victoria, Texas. population: 86,755 (2008)
But here in Phoenix we have about 4 million people. So let's not compare, Victoria, a semi-coastal town in Texas to Phoenix. Now, if you want to make a comparison, that is comparable to Phoenix, then let's talk about Houston, Texas. That's semi close to you and Victoria. (this leads me to ask you why not live in Houston, then in Victoria?) Let's get to that later.
An apartment for me in Houston Texas cost me $1,200.00 a month in Sugarland, just south of Sharpstown. Again, I currently live in a "House", not a double wide. So, your rent is $450 for your (1) bedroom apartment and my mortgage for a 3 bedroom house is $2,600.00
My house, which I put money down to buy, $25,000.00 (1998) to drop the interest rate, is now valued at $450,000.00..an investment (equity). How much investment will a person get, living in an apartment? Here, I'll answer that...none! Why do I know, I have lived in Apartments for 3/4 of my life and I got tired of paying money to make sure that the owner of the apartment, in which I was building equity for him on my money...get it. Yes I know, it just the choices we make.
Oh, a HOA, which you probably don't have in Victoria is known as a Home Owners Association. Everyone that lives within this type of community pay dues to live there. Some of the benefits in living in an HOA community is just a little bit higher in security and safety for my family, with 1.5 undocumented workers within the area. Are there 1.5 million undocumented works living in Victoria? Ah...no, probably not.
So, now that we have talked about apples and apples, not an apple and a grape. Let's get back to that other question..."Why not live in Houston?"
I guess what I am trying to say is..."the cost of living in Houston is probably just a "tinny bit" higher then Victoria.
I have lived in Houston for 11 years and I know exactly what it takes to live there as well, and you can't even get a double wide in Houston for less then $450 a month.
Head coach, please clarify: Is your complaint with Mexican workers who take low-paid jobs and then do them well, or with those who provide those jobs at too-low wages and prefer to hire Mexican workers over Americans?
I have lived in Houston for 11 years and I know exactly what it takes to live there as well, and you can't even get a double wide in Houston for less then $450 a month.
I guess times have changed. I once moved from a town of 3,000 in the middle of nowhere into Kansas City, and after a couple of years back out into another little town, and my rent and cost of living hardly changed a bit.
I would have assumed that, in Houston, I could find an apartment comparable to this one for no more than about $500. My electric bill would be the same, per KwH, maybe even with the same provider. I can't believe that it would be four times as much.
I had no idea that, suddenly, in the past few years, everything changed and the cost of living went up so much more in big cities than in smaller ones.
Head coach, please clarify: Is your complaint with Mexican workers who take low-paid jobs and then do them well, or with those who provide those jobs at too-low wages and prefer to hire Mexican workers over Americans?
Wow, thank you for asking that question. I hope I can answer it without being too much of an...ah...donkey!
Well, it really not that much of a complaint as it is more of what I see, and what I have had to put up with as a Hispanic growing up in the Southwest.
Trust me when I tell you I understand why millions of Hispanics has crossed over without the proper paper work. If I was making $4.25 usd for 8 hours, I would be trying to move as well.
Plus, I'm not so sure that they would prefer to hire Mexican workers over Americans. They (the businessman) would rather have anyone work for them, as long as they could pay the worker with as little money as possible.
That's the main problem, the businessman paying a fare wage for the work done. Now, what do I call fare wage? Now, I am not a Union guy even though it might sound like it. But Arizona is a non-union state, if I remember correctly.
Too me, a fare wage is what the market will pay. Yes, i know that sound contradictive, but let's look at this for a second. I like to use this as an example, because I have a friend that when through this situation.
My friend had been working as a electrician for over 10 years. He was making a little over $18.00 an hour. Plus, for the last 10 years, they had him doing mandatory over time. Now, I know that mandatory over time is really not that big of a deal, especially when he is trying to feed his family.
But, because Arizona is a non-union state, the owners call all of the employees into the office and told them they were have layoff because they were running out of work. So, they laid off 90% of all the workers on a Friday and over the weekend, they hired all of those positions with undocumented workers.
Now, it wasn't because the Undocumented workers did better work, how could the owner know, it was even their first day on the job. How could they know if they did or didn't do quality work. Would you be able to know by just looking at someone whether they can do quality work or not?
Is there some type of sign on their forehead that says..."" I do quality work!" Ah...nope! Now, is quality work important? To some people yes and to other...no! You get what you pay for. But, Steve, when you buy something that you have worked hard for that money and you buy it and it falls apart after so many days, would you be ticked off?
Now, quality is important to me and I think, when you add your own money into the equation, you will say that quality work is important to you as well. Now, don't go off half caulked and think that I am saying that Hispanics don't do quality work...I have seen a few that do quality work.
Thank god they kept 10% of the worker, probably the leads, to make sure that the work is of quality...I hope. But the whole point is why? Did my friends and all of his work mates do crappy work for the last 10 years while they worked over time to make sure the company stayed on their due date requirements?
I think that if a worker has been working there for 10 years, he must have done something right...wouldn't you? I mean, if you had an employee that was a slacker, would you keep him after a couple of months or you you keep him? The odds are really good that you as a businessman would cut him loose...I would.
Why? Because as a businessman, there are so many companies out there that do the same thing and the only thing that you have to offer is quality work, or a discounted price.
So when you hire a bunch of undocumented workers, to capture more market share by dropping the price and under cutting everyone to get the job, which is fine, it your prorogation to do that, but now what has happened is...not only are the 10 year employee now in the Unemployment Line collecting 1/8 of the pay that they were making before, but now, other companies go under because most people want to save a dime and the other company that has American workers can't compete at the under cutting so they go out of business.
Then you have more American's standing in the Unemployment lines. But I guess that's ok, because now we have undocumented workers to fill those jobs. Now, I don't care how many Hispanics get American jobs, I think what most American are concerned about is that everyone has turned their back on the American worker for a cheap fix.
Now, ultimately the Undocumented Hispanic worker living in the USA, will sooner or later demand a higher wage because they can't afford to live here. Or, do you think that they will just work for the same money the rest of their life? Chances are really good that if they can increase their pay, they will move on to another job that will offer them more money.
Check this out, you will like this story. I have been coaching ice hockey programs for over 30 years. But, because I have a Hispanic last name, they would rather hire a Canadian then me. It's not that the Canadian knows more about hockey then me, it just that he's from Canada and I am not. Beside, I hear this all the time..."what does a "Mexican" know about hockey, should you be coaching soccer?"
I have a twin sheet ice rink 2 minutes from my house. I bought the house hoping that someday, I would get a job there and become their hockey director. But, every time the job comes open, they hire a Canadian. This has happening like that for the last 15 years since I have owned my house.
But, it kind of leads me to wonder about the American worker. Doesn't it to you? How can the owner of an ice rink hire a Canadian worker over an American worker that lives just 2 minutes down the street. Isn't there something somewhere that says...American workers get first choice? Or is that just a fantasy?
Now, I'm not crying about my spilled milk. What this means for me, in order for me to find work in my field, I have to work outside of the state. Would I like to work two minutes from my house? Sure, I think most people would like to work two minutes from their home.
But, why should the American worker have to play second fiddle to a foreign worker if if I have the skills. Just because an individual has played hockey since they were 6 years old, doesn't give them carte blanc to coach. Example: look at Wayne Gretzky, the best hockey player in the world, broken more records then you or I can shake a stick at. But the one thing he could do is win as a coach...he failed!
So, just because one can think they can do a job, doesn't mean that they know how to do the job. I guess that if you are a business owner and you don't give a rat's donkey about quality work, then it up to you and the kind of product you put out.
Side note: Don't even be sad for me...I'm working here in Mexico building Ice Hockey programs and paying for my house in Phoenix. How's that for a twist!
I guess times have changed. I once moved from a town of 3,000 in the middle of nowhere into Kansas City, and after a couple of years back out into another little town, and my rent and cost of living hardly changed a bit.
I would have assumed that, in Houston, I could find an apartment comparable to this one for no more than about $500. My electric bill would be the same, per KwH, maybe even with the same provider. I can't believe that it would be four times as much.
I had no idea that, suddenly, in the past few years, everything changed and the cost of living went up so much more in big cities than in smaller ones.
I hear that! I spent 2.5 years in Chicago...well, just south of Chicago in a town called Kankakee. Rent was $600.00 for a fully furnished 1 bedroom apartment and my knees hit the walls then I sat down to go to the bathroom, so I had to sit almost sideways....LOL. I know TMI. The kitchen gave me the ability to turn 360 degree in one spot to reach the stove, the sink, the refrigerator without having to take a step.
Oh, by the way, I think I did say Sugarland somewhere in that post. I could get an apartment in Houston for the price of a double wide, but you might need a couple of doberman's to guard it.
This is a little random at this point in the thread, but I would just like clarify a point I was making in my earlier post. When I said that in much of Latin America economic well-being is tied to race, I should have added that this is TRADITIONALLY-speaking and is not always now true, but in several cases still is. There are, of course, also wealthy Latin American people with darker skin tones than people economically poorer. I'm also not in any way, shape, or form racist. I was just stating a common reality. Way back in colonial Mexico, for instance, the socio-economic ladder was absolutely tied to population heritage, with fully-indigenous-blooded Mexican people at the lower end of the social economic ladder, and fully-Spanish-blooded Mexican people at the higher end of the social economic ladder. Why? That's debatable, and a whole other topic of discussion, but it's also often still relevant, as this often persists.
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