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Old 05-23-2013, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,238 posts, read 29,080,592 times
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If you've ever explored the outer reaches of Tijuana, you'll soon discover what a car-centric this city really is. Take a bus ride from Tijuana to Tecate, some time, and you'll see how incredibly spread out the Tijuana area is. Go south towards Rosarito, and it's the same!

In the U.S., back to the city development is occurring all over the country, medium and big sized cities as well, with conversion of inner city buildings into lofts/condo's, and construction of new inner city housing.

This has perplexed me all along, in my many trips to Tijuana, is why there's not more inner city development in the central core of TJ, and we're talking Centro/Central, not Zona Rio, which is not Central!

Even the New City towers is perplexing to me in Zona Rio, as it stands so isolated from everything else!

There are a number of older, seemingly vacant office buildings in the central core, and why aren't these being converted to lofts/condo's for the younger generation seeking a more urban lifestyle? Or new construction in the core of the city?

I just can't imagine Tijuana having rabid, anti-development Nimby's like in California to stymie the developers!

Comments?
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:50 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,987 posts, read 21,942,319 times
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Seems to me the OP knows nothing about the family culture in Mexico as his comments are all American thinking......NO such object with Mexicans.

I was Married to a Mexican National and lived in Mexico City for three yrs.

My friends all lived in the family home with their siblings (single or just newly married spouse) sharing the roof over their head.

This could be in a 2-3 story house or a Apt in a large building......NO difference.

As for TJ and Rosarito area I've been here 17 yrs and all the homes in my area are still family oriented and the Apts/Condo

are not in the income/wage frame.

Come on down and live here for a few months and your outlook and perspective will change drastically.

Nice to throw out a question but purely a waste in my humble opinion.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:38 AM
 
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1. Mexicans basically think once they get a car, they have left buses/trains/walking behind for good. To do those things for a commute instead of driving their own car is like an insult, even if driving means sitting in horrendous traffic. So this live/work in an urban core just doesn't resonate yet. Take public transit in any city in Mexico during rush hour and you won't see the smartphone carrying, headphones in the ears crowd you see in American cities. Maybe in another generation it will start to change.
2. Workplaces don't really follow the American model of going to where the population is. Workplaces go where the business feels like opening up. This means lots of businesses end up on the fringe of town where land is cheap and available. It is kind of amazing how little vertical construction there is in Tijuana, almost all of it is for housing or hotels.
3. Except for a few modest areas in Monterrey and Guadalajara, there is no real "knowledge worker" core in Mexico. These workers drive the demand for inner core lifestyle. The worker core in Tijuana is still maquiladoras and their offshoots, not IT people or bankers. I don't think the demand is too high for business park convenient lifestyle.

And I'd agree with Steve for now. Family living arrangements still dominate. I think this is subtly changing. The small families you see in the younger generations now will change the way Mexicans live in the future. The rise of women in the workforce and allowing them to be a little more independent is changing things too. Women moving out of the house to live away from family before getting married is still not so common, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it as a growing trend. It wasn't too long ago that divorce and having kids out of wedlock were rare in Mexico, society is clearly changing. Top it off with all the Infonavit and Fovisste houses giving most families a chance to have a place of their own, albeit not exactly a place you can easily house 3 generations.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,238 posts, read 29,080,592 times
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That's a stage most go thru when going from an undeveloped to a developed country, having a car, and not having one signifying you're too poor to own one. I'm entering the last phase of my life, weaning myself away from having a car, going car-less, now riding the bus to work 2 nites a week and loving it, and my Mexican roommate of 13 years shakes his head in disbelief every time I walk to the bus stop.
Why! You have a such a nice car! Why take the bus!!! Why? I love to read, can't drive and read!

It unbelievable what the poor will go thru to avoid that stigma of not having a car, even in Tijuana. But maturity will eventually arrive some day!

As for family ties in Mexico, gimme a break!!! As Mexico continues to advance economically, rising income levels, a growing middle class will make family ties as obsolete as China, where they recently made it possible for Chinese parents to sue their one child for not providing for them in their older years!

I've been working in a nursing home in North Las Vegas (some call it Mex Town) the past 12 years, and I've attended to a great number elderly, and not so elderly, Mexican and Central Americans who get zero visitors! Family ties where art thou!!! There was a young Mexican man, in his 20's, permanently disabled due to a gang fight shooting, his family will not have anything to do with him!!!

There is a growing middle class in Tijuana and let's hope that penchant for car ownership comes to an end quicker, and downtown Tijuana starts showing some sure signs of maturity! Let the cranes arise!!!
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:46 AM
 
305 posts, read 750,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I've attended to a great number elderly, and not so elderly, Mexican and Central Americans who get zero visitors! Family ties where art thou!!! There was a young Mexican man, in his 20's, permanently disabled due to a gang fight shooting, his family will not have anything to do with him!!!
Is it really surprising that they may not have visitors? Maybe it is impossible for their family to travel either through financial situations or visa approvals.

Secondly, is it really surprising a family would dissociate themselves from a family member who is involved in gang activity?
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:05 AM
 
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So many people admire the "family culture and values" of Mexico, and let me tell you, that is going to disappear more sooner than later. Already happen in big cities of Mexico as DF, Guadalajara, Monterrey, and will be extend to the rest of Mexico in no time. Mexican culture has been absorbed by materialistic american culture.

Now about the sprawl in Tijuana and other cities, is because the government boost the construction of houses on the outskirts of cities where land was cheap, but now with the new government rules change and want to take advantage of all the land near the centers of the cities, so the construction housing companies are in crisis, people do not want to live within 1 hour of your work, that's for sure.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:49 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
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External spreading of homes (Govt Built} will not end.

Example....In Df take Linea 3 to the end at Indio Verdes where you will find about 400 busses (my last count) that bring or take loads of people to and from out lying areas just to take the Metro to work.......1-1/2 hr commute in the morning and after work (approx. 3 hrs total time) that I personally took many times back to Narvarte (centro).

Had two Lawyer friends......both lived in Apts that they owned....one in a high rise and the other in a 3 story.

The latter had a unit on the 2nd floor.....bought the unit directly overhead....cut a hole in the ceiling/upper floor and installed a spiral staircase as an access for his two teenage daughters as a separate place for them to sleep etc.

Just about every house on our block had many family members still living at home...contributing to the household expenses that paid for a livein maid (her own small room/bath on roof). These can be seen when flying into the airport.

In TJ there are high rise buildings with large windows that identify them as Apt dwellings for families with many cars outside.

Famiies being large they may have just one vehicle thus most will take public transportation to there school or work.

Just stand at any corner be it TJ or DF and observe the traffic flow be it Taxis, route Taxis. small/large busses are carrying many w/o any car let alone one at the household.

My very first trip to DF blew my mind when standing outside the front entrance saw all the Taxis/busses driving by full of people......kinda reminded me of the movie "Soylent Green".

Like I said earlier stay down here in TJ/Rosarito/ or DF for a few weeks and LEARN the TRUTH.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:13 PM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,599,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
In the U.S., back to the city development is occurring all over the country, medium and big sized cities as well, with conversion of inner city buildings into lofts/condo's, and construction of new inner city housing.
There is very high profile projects in the USA in center cities as people attempt to foster a non-car culture. But in reality, it has little affect on the vast majority of population. Cities are still spreading out in all directions.

Tijuana has a growth rate which is one of the highest in the North America in the last 30 years. It has long eclipsed Mexico City and Guadalajara which had their growth spurts in earlier decades.

So I think that your observation concerns more than simply Mexican culture, but developed and developing societies in general.

But unique to Mexico is the difficulty in developing infrastructure where so many high level government officials are on the take. Take a look at the development of limited access high speed highways from 1988-1994. Clearly by 1988 most of the interstate system in the USA was completed. In contrast there were only a few hundred miles in Mexico: primarily Queretaro to Mexico City to Puebla, and Tijuana to Ensenada.

While Mexico desperately needed a modern highway system to be competitive there was about 2000 miles built in those 6 years. Today there are almost 5000 miles of toll roads. But look at the cost. Salinas retired from the presidency as a billionaire. Mexico has this network of highways with outrageous tolls (an average of US$13.69 per 100 miles for a car according to SCT).
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
23,238 posts, read 29,080,592 times
Reputation: 32658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bagu View Post
External spreading of homes (Govt Built} will not end.
Now this helps solve the puzzle! Gov't built housing contributing to the sprawl!

On Wednesday morning, as an adventure, I hopped on a bus in Tijuana Centro that read Tijuana Airport/Otay Mesa, and did a round trip, and I noticed way out there, somewhere, a stock of identical type apartment buildings that appeared to be possibly government built?

In reading a book on the Marcos Dynasty of the Philippines, when the Marcos' had become dictators, Imelda, disgusted by the sight of Manila's worst eyesore inner city slum, ordered the entire slum destroyed and its 6000 familes relocated to the far edge of Manila. Out of sight, out of mind!

I've been equally perplexed to find such sprawl around Guatemala City and San Salvador, where it must be quite a hardship for the poorest of the poor to make their way to working in the inner city everyday!

And what's been happening in the U.S.? A reversal, more poor gravitating to the suburbs, driven out by inner city high priced housing developments.

So it looks like a similar pattern will happen, if and when, Tijuana Centro is redeveloped eventually?
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:49 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,987 posts, read 21,942,319 times
Reputation: 7008
When I mentioned a sprawl all a person has to do is leave TJ going towards Rosarito and there will b HUNDREDS of 800 sq ft (approx.) two story homes that look all ALIKE w/o any garage but two strips of concrete out front for one car.

These are GOVMT built homes for those from TJ etc that need housing. Price was initially about $24K when first advertised... stopped showing a price then quickly went to $35K.

I had thought to buy a unit but then I'm NOT a Mexican Citizen so that was out of the question.

All those homes and NO factories etc for people to work thus the Route Taxi or local buses for transportation into TJ or Otay Mesa etc.......reminds me of Mexico City when living there........plenty of people movers.
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