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Hey guys, guys, guys, this thread is going way out of topic . To answer the main question asked here, and you wanted the opinion of a mexican citizen living in Mexico, so here it goes. This is going to be long ok?
Picture this, you are an 18 year old with no oportunity to get into college because you didn't go to high school beacuse your parents, if you have them, didn't have the money to afford it, or you had to work to be able to eat something throuhg those years, then you go out to the main plaza in the nearest town on some holidays, and you see other people who just came back from "el norte" with big trucks, listening to the music you like, wearing american eagle and abercrombie clothes, drinking beer, spending money and having fun, on the other side you are wearing whatever you can, and have no money to buy anything, and you know you don't have the knowledge and degree to get a good job in Mexico that will give you the money to do what the other guys are doing, wouldn't you be drag into the mere dream of moving? Now, this is for someone from a very small village who has no vision of the world, he or she doesn't have it because they probably didn't have a tv, they don't know there is a world out there waiting to be conquered. The only vision of a better life they have is what they see in other people from the same town they live in.
Now let's get a different approach, you are a succesful store owner or enterpreneur, or a teacher, and the zetas come to you and ask you for a "cooperation fee" or else you and/or your business may suffer an accident or kids might be kidnapped, then your intention is to be a good citizen and you call the police, army or do on anonimous call, then you realice the police chief is eihter involved with them or threatened by them too. And there is nothing you can do beacuse everyone is affraid to stand for themselves beacuse they might kill your family if you do something against them, if you can do something aginst them, beacuse if get caught by the army with a gun in your car you'll go to jail. So, you have to options, pay or the "cooperation fee" or close your business and move someplace else, guess what place would that be?
Situation three (mine), I am a high school teacher with two university degrees and currenlty studying a "diplomado" and waiting to study a masters degree, I won't say a make a lot of money but I could surely do better, I live comfortably, but not great, I speak English, French and of course Spanish, I live and work in a small town, I don't want to move to the states, let me get that straight, I didn't want to move someplace else, if I ever do that, I would move to Canada, because of many opinions I've herad from my friends who have lived there, I don't want to go through many things they've told me.
As I told you I didn't want to move but now it wouldn't be a bad idea for me, see, everytime you want to make something good for this country the people won't let you, they keep breaking the law, doing things wrong and they don't want to change, government is not interested,wait, do we have a government?, now, I found out, according to my fiancee's friend who is also a teacher, zetas asked everyone in the teahcer buss she travels everyday a cooperation fee of 500 pesos, everytwo weeks, that's like 40 usd, maybe that's not much, but you don't have why to support criminals in the first place, you worked hard for that money and if you consider you only make like 3500 - 4000 pesos everytwo weeks, 500 is a lot of money. Zetas told the that every teacher and school worker in the country is going to pay for the cooperation fee, or else ... well you get the idea.
So, wouldn't you want to leave?
And moving to the states legaly, jajajajajajaja, let me laugh my ass off, do you have any idea what it takes to move into the US legally? at least from Mexico, they ask you to have a job there, then your contractor has to do a lot of paperwork, and they don't want to do that, well, then you tell them you are going to invest there, the embassy asks you to prove you are going to invest then they tell you need to invest at least 1 million USD, jajajaja, if I had that kind of money I would invest it here, or spend it here, or not work at all and live a low proile life so I could hide from the zetas.
To get a travel visa they ask you things you wouldn't imagine, bank acounts, to prove you have cash, credit cards, properties such as cars, real estate, have no debts, not to know anyone in the USA or not having a relative there, jajaja, for christ sake, I know at least 1000 mexicans in the US, and no, not all fo them use the social services, and yes, they pay taxes, not saying all of them, but most of them do. So then again, I am a Teacher, I work for the government and I don't have a tourist visa, I'm not even interested in going to the states, not anymore. So most of the mexican people you see in the states arethose who had no education, who are from small towns with no infrastructure, and not people with education who can performa better job other than wash your dishes or construct your houses or be your waiters.
Moving on, you are talking a lot about history, well, guys, history is the past, and we can't change that, there is no such thing as "reconquista" stolen land or not, from anyone, it is now officially US territory (thank God, I don't want to imagine what it would be like if it was Mexico's) the differences between Mexico and the US starts at the very foundations of both nations, when europeans arrived to the Americas they had different goals, for Englis, Irish and all those white north europeans they were fleeing from poverty, famine and I don't know what else, so they came to the US to have a better life, to work, to pursue happiness for them and their families, so they had the same ideal, and got together to achieve it, on the other hand, Spaniards arrived to this part of the continent trying see what they could get and take it back to spain, they tried to "chingar" everyone they could so they could get more gold, or land, so the history goes like that, United States, working together to pursue happiness and good life, Mexico and Latin america, get anything from anyone you can so you can have more. Yes, it is as simple as that.
Now, government and religion have always tried to put our pride down,why? because it is good for them, they get more money and none says anything, they keep telling us we all are meztizos and we have to hate everything spaniard, when about 20 percent of mexico's population is white spanish decendant, so, there is no pride they keep telling us we are "just" a mix and we don't deserve to have anything better, they keep saying indigenous people "were" very intelligent and prosperous and that white rich people only lives in US and Europe, but since we are a mix of the worst of both races we worth nothing.
So, let me ask you again, wouldn't you want to leave?
P.S. I don't want to leave, but maybe I will have to, so will have to most of my well educated friends. but guess what, we don't want to go to the US, we want to move some place else.
I would continue but I have a meeting, have to go, XOXO.
The neighborhood I'm currently living in is currently undergoing a huge change. It's really sad. I'm not sure what happened... but suddenly there are literally truckloads of illegal Mexicans moving in. I am not joking. I grew up in Texas working with illegals, and learned how to spot the difference between the ones here for good and the ones here up to no good.
It used to be a very quiet, affordable, safe, and clean neighborhood. Now we hear gunshots at night, there's graffitti everywhere, their cars with the loud bass are thumping through the streets all hours of the night and day... cops are here quite a bit. The property crime has shot up. We have crime maps you can look at online, and suddenly what was once a calm area with hardly any incidences is suddenly dotted with reports. People who have lived here 20+ years are relocating to different parts of the city to get away from it. Jobs are scarce as it is for legal citizens in our city, and businesses are having a hard time getting by. Who do you think they are going to hire?
I volunteer in the schools and I see the effect on our schools, too... these kids do not speak English. They often have behavioral issues. Their parents are not involved in their education. They most often receive free lunch and free breakfast. They often don't have appropriate clothing. They often come to school stinking of alcohol and cigarettes or body odor. Our public schools are struggling as it is, and now they have to deal with the high numbers of kids who don't even speak the language with parents who make no effort to help their children learn it. So they require special treatment and put added strain on the schools.
I don't mind people coming to this country legally for a better life. My husbands parents did exactly that. My family 11 generations ago did exactly that. Everyone in this country who isn't a Native American is technically an immigrant. What I do resent are the people who come here illegally and bring their problems here with them. And then because they are illegal, and they don't have papers, and we don't know who they really are, there's nothing we can do but ship them back and wait for them to slip back in - all at our cost.
Our local jails are overcrowded. We have to turn sex offenders out onto the streets because we don't have enough beds. The last thing we need are more criminals to exacerbate the situation.
If you're Mexican and you're fed up and you want a better life - I'm sympathetic. I want you to have better. I don't care what country you're from. If you're seeking a better life and you have your heart set on America, by all means follow your dreams. But come here the right way, then you'll have my full support. But break our laws and ruin my neighborhood and my kids schools and I'll be the first one to put you out on the streets.
Why God? Why these people keep behaving like that? It's really sad to read things like this, and I'm really sorry American society has to go through this, but anyway, you are a great intelligent people, you'll find a way to figure a solution out, I don't blame you for wanting to send all illegal people out of your country,and I know maybe the illegal part is not the worst, but the way they behave.
Spaniards arrived to this part of the continent trying see what they could get and take it back to spain, they tried to "chingar" everyone they could so they could get more gold, or land, so the history goes like that, United States, working together to pursue happiness and good life, Mexico and Latin america, get anything from anyone you can so you can have more. Yes, it is as simple as that.
One of the smartest things ever said. Absolutely correct. I have a lot of Spanish ancestry, of which I am genuinely ashamed of. Spaniards came to Mexico, not to develop the country or to even make it a succesful society. They came to plunder, and proselytize some Indiands so that G-d may forgive them. When the Spanish that did come over started mixing with the locals, a rigid caste system was set up with pure Indians at the bottom, and Spanish-born Spaniards at the top. We have somewhat inherited that system, and that mentality... and makes Mexico the society of crime, theft, scams, and material desires that it is today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyhero
Now, government and religion have always tried to put our pride down,why? because it is good for them, they get more money and none says anything, they keep telling us we all are meztizos and we have to hate everything spaniard, when about 20 percent of mexico's population is white spanish decendant, so, there is no pride they keep telling us we are "just" a mix and we don't deserve to have anything better, they keep saying indigenous people "were" very intelligent and prosperous and that white rich people only lives in US and Europe, but since we are a mix of the worst of both races we worth nothing.
We'll wait for comments from our lilly-white friend Diego....
And how do they behave differently from legal immigrants? Just curious.
Generalizations are not good in any case, So, I'm not saying ALL ilegal immigrants behave like that, I don't know why you tend to feel attacked by any comment anyone says, or attack everyone who makes a comment you don't agree with, and don't say you don't Diego, trying to make other people look like stupid with your questions is attacking.
But, think this, if you are a tax-paying, worker, live-by-the-law, working American, and then you see someone from out of your country, destroy it, you will no be happy, otherwise, if the person destroying your system is a legal, well, you might say he/she at least, has the right to be in the country in the fisrt place, so the government knows who he/she is, therefore he/she can be porcessed.
I just don't understand what people mean when they talk about "illegal immigrant behavior."
If the concept exists, there must be a reason, have you ever paid attention to the way people don't want to "get along" with the culture they are getting into? They still want to do what they did in their countries, not speak the new language they now have to deal with. Many say they will never be americanizad, then what the heck are they doing there?
I still speak Spanish, watch soccer, eat quesadillas, hang out with other mexicans, wear Mexican soccer jerseys, etc.
So if you saw me at the mall or something, most people (possibly including you) would immediately think "Look at that illegal scum. He doesn't want to integrate into society, he's taking jobs from us, he's probably a gang member, he's destroying our country, etc."
Am I wrong in assuming this? Can you honestly say that this isn't what you'd think of me?
And yet, if you didn't talk to me, you'd never find out that I'm also a proud American citizen (dual citizen), speak perfect English, have more American friends than Mexicans, etc. Oh, not to mention on my ACT test I scored a 34 on the English section, only 2 points from a perfect score.
Does anyone actually find out if those people are legal or illegal? No. You simply assume it from the way they look and talk. If you actually had conversations with these people, like I regularly do, you'd find out that they used to be hard working doctors, lawyers, college professors, etc., who live here legally, love their country, pay their taxes, and do speak English (maybe a bit of an accent).
And I'll be honest here. I've met many undocumented immigrants, and I mean MANY. Every single one that I've met PAYS TAXES and receives no benefits. The only time they do is when they need to go to the ER. And they all love this country and work incredibly hard. Do you know why they often speak such little English? Because most have about 3 different jobs, and work from sunrise to sunset. They get paid miserable wages, pay taxes, and work all day. Tell me, when do they have the time or money to take English lessons?
Obviously this doesn't represent all undocumented immigrants, just my personal experience. But in that experience, I think AT LEAST 50% of undocumented immigrants, at least from Mexico, are exactly like this. Hard working, they pay taxes, etc.
I'll never be Americanized. I'm from Mexico, and will always be Mexican. But you know what? Mexican culture isn't much different from American culture. I do the same things and act the same way here as I did in Mexico. I watch the same tv shows, love the same movies, etc. And none of what I do goes "against" American culture. I blend perfectly well into the melting pot of culture that is the United States of America. And yes, that includes the WASP culture that most seem to think as the definition of American culture.
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. To answer the main question asked here, and you wanted the opinion of a mexican citizen living in Mexico, so here it goes. This is going to be long ok?
Now, this is for someone from a very small village who has no vision of the world, he or she doesn't have it because they probably didn't have a tv, they don't know there is a world out there waiting to be conquered. The only vision of a better life they have is what they see in other people from the same town they live in.
We'll wait for comments from our lilly-white friend Diego....
