NY Times: Miami Energes from Gloom (Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach: low income, section 8, condominiums)

[valicky]

"While there is evidence of saturation in the market for high-end condominiums, developers see profit in redirecting their sights toward buyers in lower income brackets. Nir Shoshani hopes to attract professionals aged 30 to 45 to a 500-unit condominium tower called Canvas, for which he broke ground in February. The average unit will cost about $400,000, he said, and be just 860 square feet."

So apparently, these condos are for buyers in lower income brackets and not high end. Those are the comments I found surprising as it seems to be referring to Miami residents, not NY'ers coming down and buying them. I didn't realize lower income bracket people bought 400K condos. It's a shame the salaries aren't going up anywhere near the pace of COL is here.

[Astral_Weeks]

Originally Posted by valicky

"While there is evidence of saturation in the market for high-end condominiums, developers see profit in redirecting their sights toward buyers in lower income brackets. Nir Shoshani hopes to attract professionals aged 30 to 45 to a 500-unit condominium tower called Canvas, for which he broke ground in February. The average unit will cost about $400,000, he said, and be just 860 square feet."

So apparently, these condos are for buyers in lower income brackets and not high end. Those are the comments I found surprising as it seems to be referring to Miami residents, not NY'ers coming down and buying them. I didn't realize lower income bracket people bought 400K condos. It's a shame the salaries aren't going up anywhere near the pace of COL is here.

Probably a poor choice of words by the guy they quoted (or perhaps a misquote). Clearly he did say they are targeting, "professionals aged 30 to 45." By "lower income brackets" he probably means lower than the super wealthy foreign buyers who have been paying all cash. In other words, they are looking at professionals probably making in excess of $90,000 or $100,000 who have a minimum of a 10 or 20 percent down payment ready to go.

[Astral_Weeks]

Thanks for posting the article Elchevere.

As a fan of Barcelona I found this interesting:
"Adding to the renewal of downtown is a $13 million project to restore a half-mile section of Flagler Street, which long ago was the city’s pre-eminent urban thoroughfare but fell into decay in recent decades. The plan, inspired by the pedestrian-only Ramblas in Barcelona, Spain, is to transform the street with outdoor cafes, wider sidewalks and valet parking. The developer Moishe Mana has already invested more than $200 million in properties on and near Flagler Street."

Obviously, you can't recreate the old world charm of Barcelona in Miami or any American city but still good to hear they are trying/attempting to build something pedestrian friendly and hopefully interesting.

[Lusiphur]

Originally Posted by valicky

"While there is evidence of saturation in the market for high-end condominiums, developers see profit in redirecting their sights toward buyers in lower income brackets. Nir Shoshani hopes to attract professionals aged 30 to 45 to a 500-unit condominium tower called Canvas, for which he broke ground in February. The average unit will cost about $400,000, he said, and be just 860 square feet."

So apparently, these condos are for buyers in lower income brackets and not high end. Those are the comments I found surprising as it seems to be referring to Miami residents, not NY'ers coming down and buying them. I didn't realize lower income bracket people bought 400K condos. It's a shame the salaries aren't going up anywhere near the pace of COL is here.

Well, they mean lower-income professionals. If you have an office job, you should be able to afford a 400k condo, I think is the meaning there. These aren't low-income housing for sure, but they are affordable for an individual or especially a married couple who both work professional jobs.

Also, keep in mind that Miami is the land of the 8-figure condo, so by those standards, $400k is downright cheap.

[valicky]

Of course, everything is relative. 400K is cheap compared to multi million but it's not cheap compared to what I think, realistically, lower income brackets are buying - 200K. Would lower income be $50-60K? Could someone making that spend 400K on a condo? Remember that there are taxes, insurance and HOA/maintenance fees that go along with the mortgage/interest payment. Without a huge downpayment, I don't see how that's possible. Definitely a two person household is needed if it's really geared towards lower income brackets.

[AnnRyan]

If you're making $60K a year, you're probably not buying a $400K condo... UNLESS you bought a condo at the bottom of the market and have some equity for an upgrade. The average buyer at CANVAS is still a foreign investor (trust me, they pitched my office twice already), but they do anticipate that more local buyers will be buying it on the secondary market. Which is why it got FHA approval. Also, once it's built, a couple whose total income is about $80K a year probably will be able to afford to rent there. Which is at least a step in the right direction.

Ann

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks

Thanks for posting the article Elchevere.

As a fan of Barcelona I found this interesting:
"Adding to the renewal of downtown is a $13 million project to restore a half-mile section of Flagler Street, which long ago was the city’s pre-eminent urban thoroughfare but fell into decay in recent decades. The plan, inspired by the pedestrian-only Ramblas in Barcelona, Spain, is to transform the street with outdoor cafes, wider sidewalks and valet parking. The developer Moishe Mana has already invested more than $200 million in properties on and near Flagler Street."

Obviously, you can't recreate the old world charm of Barcelona in Miami or any American city but still good to hear they are trying/attempting to build something pedestrian friendly and hopefully interesting.

Wider sidewalks plus valet parking in the same sentence....ah, typical Miami. When will they realize that people are fine parking in a garage a block away, or taking Uber and not having to deal with parking at all. They had a chance to create the next Lincoln Road (with more depth and "old charm" if you consider all those small side malls that open up on to Flagler), or at least the first proper downtown bike route or setting aside dedicated bus lanes to be upgraded to streetcar. Instead, the only change to the actual street functionality is pedestrians will be able to cross diagonally. But the cars are still being prioritized, and the resulting traffic congestion and noise pollution (honking, revving of engines) isn't going anywhere.

My prediction is people are just going to go to City Center or Miami World Center instead, where they can park and walk around and not have to think about cars again until they get back to their own vehicle.

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by valicky

Of course, everything is relative. 400K is cheap compared to multi million but it's not cheap compared to what I think, realistically, lower income brackets are buying - 200K.

Not unless these guys are making $60-70K.... $100-150K would be more realistic for working class folks, especially with our tax and insurance/HOA situation. Developers are WAY out of touch with the needs of the average working class local. Like the $1600/1br apartments downtown that they're trying to call "affordable."

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by AnnRyan

If you're making $60K a year, you're probably not buying a $400K condo... UNLESS you bought a condo at the bottom of the market and have some equity for an upgrade. The average buyer at CANVAS is still a foreign investor (trust me, they pitched my office twice already), but they do anticipate that more local buyers will be buying it on the secondary market. Which is why it got FHA approval. Also, once it's built, a couple whose total income is about $80K a year probably will be able to afford to rent there. Which is at least a step in the right direction.

Ann

Ann, are you guys anticipating locals actually being able to buy a condo FHA with 3.5%-5% down on the resale market any time soon? Or is it more that the developer/investors want to keep that door open "just in case." Only reason I could think of to buy a condo FHA would be the lower amount down. (Of course, whether one would recommend buyers do this in the first place is another issue!)

[Lusiphur]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

Not unless these guys are making $60-70K.... $100-150K would be more realistic for working class folks, especially with our tax and insurance/HOA situation. Developers are WAY out of touch with the needs of the average working class local. Like the $1600/1br apartments downtown that they're trying to call "affordable."

You also have to compare it to similar units in other cities. A prime downtown development like this in NYC, Chicago, LA, Seattle, etc. would be WAY more than $400k. So in that regard, it is definitely cheap. And for a couple making $60-70k each, it's very doable.

Affordable is definitely a relative term, and it's not the same thing as low-income housing, which has a concrete technical definition.

My question about the FHA thing, though, is that I was under the impression that in Miami-Dade County, the FHA limit for a single unit was like $325k. So how would this be doable under FHA, anyway?