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Well, I kind of understand Eduardo.
If he has to live in that "milieu", no wonder he hates everybody, particularly people he perceives as Cubans.
But you are right, if he travels to Italy he will probably will have to live with poor immigrants, "chusmeria".
Just like Spain.
Imagine my hometown, a "boutique" and very expensive costal town with 5 marinas. 11.000 euros/square meter.
With the price of a 100 sq/meters apartment (1.100.000 euros) (an apartment below American Standards) you can buy a large house or a superb condo in Miami.
The only reason yokels like myself can live here is because we inherited things dating back to the times where this town was poor.
Julio Iglesias was at the best hotel we have in town and said that "any third rate motel in Florida was better".
I think that you are a very learned man, but you are confusing some of the concepts I threw in my post.
You said that your family is from West Africa, Mauritania?
I'm talking about "ethnic Arabs", not conceptual Arabs. I know that for Islam, an Arab is anybody that speaks Arab, "Al Arabi". But I'm talking from a ethnic standpoint.
Egiptians are not Arabs, Egyptians have been Egiptians during the last 4.000 years. As to the fact that Arabs displaced Egyptians, nonsense. Greeks, Hellenistic and Romans did not displaced Egyptians, much less muslims.
I know that in North Africa there are many that claim to be "true Arabs" (Morocco), but that difference is now diffuse. And yes, there are the "moriscos", muslims expelled from Spain, and yes, here I found large important diferences because "moors" were just average Spanish whose only crime was being Islamic at the wrong place. They still live in Morocco, they still have Spanish names and they own the country.
Yes, the Roman occupied the fringes of Arabia, it was called "Arabia Felix" because they traded in myrra and were very wealthy. They also occupied nearer Arabia, the empire of the Nabatheans. They occupied Palestina, Phoenicia and Mesopotamia (Irak), but those are not ethnic Arabs. They also occupied part of Parthia (Persia) to open a way to China, but it was a failure.
Of course, Lebanese, Lebanese are the descendants of Phoenicians, and of course, many of them don't consider themselves Arabs and probably they are not. Just as Syria, in Syria, a entirely Arab country inhabited by western cicilized white people, many descendants of crusaders, many christians, they say (jokingly) that they are crusaders or "Romans".
Well, of course, I'm only talking from a entirely ethnic standpoint.
Well, I kind of understand Eduardo.
If he has to live in that "milieu", no wonder he hates everybody, particularly people he perceives as Cubans.
But you are right, if he travels to Italy he will probably will have to live with poor immigrants, "chusmeria".
Just like Spain.
Imagine my hometown, a "boutique" and very expensive costal town with 5 marinas. 11.000 euros/square meter.
With the price of a 100 sq/meters apartment (1.100.000 euros) (an apartment below American Standards) you can buy a large house or a superb condo in Miami.
The only reason yokels like myself can live here is because we inherited things dating back to the times where this town was poor.
Julio Iglesias was at the best hotel we have in town and said that "any third rate motel in Florida was better".
Well, I kind of understand Eduardo.
If he has to live in that "milieu", no wonder he hates everybody, particularly people he perceives as Cubans.
But you are right, if he travels to Italy he will probably will have to live with poor immigrants, "chusmeria".
Just like Spain.
Imagine my hometown, a "boutique" and very expensive costal town with 5 marinas. 11.000 euros/square meter.
With the price of a 100 sq/meters apartment (1.100.000 euros) (an apartment below American Standards) you can buy a large house or a superb condo in Miami.
The only reason yokels like myself can live here is because we inherited things dating back to the times where this town was poor.
Julio Iglesias was at the best hotel we have in town and said that "any third rate motel in Florida was better".
Part of the reason why many Americans dislike Miami so much is that the prestigious areas are densely-populated and expensive compared to most other places in this country. There is plenty of sprawl in West Kendall, Doral, and Homestead where a single family, detached home can be had for a very reasonable price, but many "middle Americans" avoid those areas because, depending on the neighborhood, they are 60-85% "Hispanic." Nevermind that most of these "Hispanics" speak English and/or are Americans themselves!
"American standards" are often unreasonable and make little sense to other people in the devloped world. The problem with this country nowadays is that, as a generality, people want an upper class lifestyle on a middle class income. Why are places like suburban Georgia and North Carolina so popular with middle-class Americans? The quick answer to that is that in those places you can buy a large, detached, single family house in a homogenous area with new, wide streets/expressways and plenty of free parking for a low price. The "American dream" has changed drastically since its conception. Prior to the 1950's, the American dream was to purchase a dwelling in which to raise your family. In the 1950's, the American dream became to be able to afford a modest, single family home in the suburbs with a car in the driveway. In the 1970's the American dream become to own a spacious home in suburbs even further from the central city, and in the 1990's and to now, the American dream is to have nothing less than a 3000 square foot home (+/- 300 square meters), a three-car garage full of SUV's and sports cars, a private swimming pool, three plasma big-screen TV's, all in an area that is "not crowded" (ie: low-density, no pedestrians, and little to no public transportation). When middle class Americans cannot afford that, they start to badmouth cities and metro areas where the middle class lives lifestyles closer to the traditional middle-class lifestyle in the 1950's and before.
In fact, people have tried to manipulate the very definition of "middle class" in the first place. Can you believe that I once had an argument on this forum with a married woman with two kids that was arguing that her $180,000 household income was barely enough for her to consider herself lower-middle class? She didn't really care to hear that such an income puts her household in the top 5% of American households for yearly earnings, and instead insisted that "middle class" was defined with what you can buy for the money. If that were the case, I would be upper class in Kansas City, middle class in Seattle, and "in poverty" living in Monaco. Sadly, however, many Americans have begun to base "middle class" on the notion that you are not "middle class" unless you can afford to purchase all of the items I described above.
My parents raised my sister and me in a 1070 square foot (100 square meters) dwelling. It was in a safe neighborhood and a short drive to the water. Many of our neighbors were blue-collar families; some were from Florida, some were from NJ/NY, some were from Cuba, and some were from South America. I attended "average" public schools and was able to receive an excellent educated because I made the most of it. I attended a prestigious undergraduate university and now am in law school, and many of my friends who grew up with me in "average" public schools that people outside of South Florida call "BAD" have taken similar career tracks. From reading this forum, you would think that Miami is a hellhole in which you will be robbed, will not be able to find a soul who speaks English, and in which your children will not be able to read if they attend public schools there. Guess what? This is a gross exaggeration of the reality of the area. If you can get over the fact that you will hear a lot of Spanish being spoken, you will be fine as a middle class family living in a middle class area. If you want a McMansion in a neighborhood that is almost all non-ethnic "white American", all for under $200,000, you are in the wrong metropolitan area.
Life is what you make of it, and places with big houses in cookie-cutter neighborhoods where kids go to schools that are 90% blonde-haired, blue-eyed "white American" don't necessarily produce better, more intelligent, or more sophisticated people.
Last edited by Marlin331; 05-06-2009 at 01:33 PM..
Part of the reason why many Americans dislike Miami so much is that the prestigious areas are densely-populated and expensive compared to most other places in this country. There is plenty of sprawl in West Kendall, Doral, and Homestead where a single family, detached home can be had for a very reasonable price, but many "middle Americans" avoid those areas because, depending on the neighborhood, they are 60-85% "Hispanic." Nevermind that most of these "Hispanics" speak English and/or are Americans themselves!
"American standards" are often unreasonable and make little sense to other people in the devloped world. The problem with this country nowadays is that, as a generality, people want an upper class lifestyle on a middle class income. Why are places like suburban Georgia and North Carolina so popular with middle-class Americans? The quick answer to that is that in those places you can buy a large, detached, single family house in a homogenous area with new, wide streets/expressways and plenty of free parking for a low price. The "American dream" has changed drastically since its conception. Prior to the 1950's, the American dream was to purchase a dwelling in which to raise your family. In the 1950's, the American dream became to be able to afford a modest, single family home in the suburbs with a car in the driveway. In the 1970's the American dream become to own a spacious home in suburbs even further from the central city, and in the 1990's and to now, the American dream is to have nothing less than a 3000 square foot home (+/- 300 square meters), a three-car garage full of SUV's and sports cars, a private swimming pool, three plasma big-screen TV's, all in an area that is "not crowded" (ie: low-density, no pedestrians, and little to no public transportation). When middle class Americans cannot afford that, they start to badmouth cities and metro areas where the middle class lives lifestyles closer to the traditional middle-class lifestyle in the 1950's and before.
In fact, people have tried to manipulate the very definition of "middle class" in the first place. Can you believe that I once had an argument on this forum with a married woman with two kids that was arguing that her $180,000 household income was barely enough for her to consider herself lower-middle class? She didn't really care to hear that such an income puts her household in the top 5% of American households for yearly earnings, and instead insisted that "middle class" was defined with what you can buy for the money. If that were the case, I would be upper class in Kansas City, middle class in Seattle, and "in poverty" living in Monaco. Sadly, however, many Americans have begun to base "middle class" on the notion that you are not "middle class" unless you can afford to purchase all of the items I described above.
My parents raised my sister and me in a 1070 square foot (100 square meters) dwelling. It was in a safe neighborhood and a short drive to the water. Many of our neighbors were blue-collar families; some were from Florida, some were from NJ/NY, some were from Cuba, and some were from South America. I attended "average" public schools and was able to receive an excellent educated because I made the most of it. I attended a prestigious undergraduate university and now am in law school, and many of my friends who grew up with me in "average" public schools that people outside of South Florida call "BAD" have taken similar career tracks. From reading this forum, you would think that Miami is a hellhole in which you will be robbed, will not be able to find a soul who speaks English, and in which your children will not be able to read if they attend public schools there. Guess what? This is a gross exaggeration of the reality of the area. If you can get over the fact that you will hear a lot of Spanish being spoken, you will be fine as a middle class family living in a middle class area. If you want a McMansion in a neighborhood that is almost all non-ethnic "white American", all for under $200,000, you are in the wrong metropolitan area.
Life is what you make of it, and places with big houses in cookie-cutter neighborhoods where kids go to schools that are 90% blonde-haired, blue-eyed "white American" don't necessary produce better, more intelligent, or more sophisticated people.
You could be right, or wrong. However, those young women in front of the Cuban flag (page 11) have the prettiest skin complexion. What are they? What's the mix there?
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,155,259 times
Reputation: 7018
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444
Part of the reason why many Americans dislike Miami so much is that the prestigious areas are densely-populated and expensive compared to most other places in this country. There is plenty of sprawl in West Kendall, Doral, and Homestead where a single family, detached home can be had for a very reasonable price, but many "middle Americans" avoid those areas because, depending on the neighborhood, they are 60-85% "Hispanic." Nevermind that most of these "Hispanics" speak English and/or are Americans themselves!
"American standards" are often unreasonable and make little sense to other people in the devloped world. The problem with this country nowadays is that, as a generality, people want an upper class lifestyle on a middle class income. Why are places like suburban Georgia and North Carolina so popular with middle-class Americans? The quick answer to that is that in those places you can buy a large, detached, single family house in a homogenous area with new, wide streets/expressways and plenty of free parking for a low price. The "American dream" has changed drastically since its conception. Prior to the 1950's, the American dream was to purchase a dwelling in which to raise your family. In the 1950's, the American dream became to be able to afford a modest, single family home in the suburbs with a car in the driveway. In the 1970's the American dream become to own a spacious home in suburbs even further from the central city, and in the 1990's and to now, the American dream is to have nothing less than a 3000 square foot home (+/- 300 square meters), a three-car garage full of SUV's and sports cars, a private swimming pool, three plasma big-screen TV's, all in an area that is "not crowded" (ie: low-density, no pedestrians, and little to no public transportation). When middle class Americans cannot afford that, they start to badmouth cities and metro areas where the middle class lives lifestyles closer to the traditional middle-class lifestyle in the 1950's and before.
In fact, people have tried to manipulate the very definition of "middle class" in the first place. Can you believe that I once had an argument on this forum with a married woman with two kids that was arguing that her $180,000 household income was barely enough for her to consider herself lower-middle class? She didn't really care to hear that such an income puts her household in the top 5% of American households for yearly earnings, and instead insisted that "middle class" was defined with what you can buy for the money. If that were the case, I would be upper class in Kansas City, middle class in Seattle, and "in poverty" living in Monaco. Sadly, however, many Americans have begun to base "middle class" on the notion that you are not "middle class" unless you can afford to purchase all of the items I described above.
My parents raised my sister and me in a 1070 square foot (100 square meters) dwelling. It was in a safe neighborhood and a short drive to the water. Many of our neighbors were blue-collar families; some were from Florida, some were from NJ/NY, some were from Cuba, and some were from South America. I attended "average" public schools and was able to receive an excellent educated because I made the most of it. I attended a prestigious undergraduate university and now am in law school, and many of my friends who grew up with me in "average" public schools that people outside of South Florida call "BAD" have taken similar career tracks. From reading this forum, you would think that Miami is a hellhole in which you will be robbed, will not be able to find a soul who speaks English, and in which your children will not be able to read if they attend public schools there. Guess what? This is a gross exaggeration of the reality of the area. If you can get over the fact that you will hear a lot of Spanish being spoken, you will be fine as a middle class family living in a middle class area. If you want a McMansion in a neighborhood that is almost all non-ethnic "white American", all for under $200,000, you are in the wrong metropolitan area.
Life is what you make of it, and places with big houses in cookie-cutter neighborhoods where kids go to schools that are 90% blonde-haired, blue-eyed "white American" don't necessarily produce better, more intelligent, or more sophisticated people.
Excellent!
Some people can't see the forest for the trees.
The trend is also going towards more "city" living, where you can walk to places and not have to depend on a car or someone to drive you. It gets to be a PIA after a while when you have to drive everywhere, or even take public transportation (although that would be tough in Miami).
From your zipcode, I know where you live, and if you are making statements like "Miami is not the USA" and "all Cubans in Miami are mixed," you need to get out of Sweetwater and Fountainbleau more often. I grew up in Kendall/South Miami and the Keys and the great majority of my Cuban and Cuban-American friends were from non-mixed white families with very recent ancestry (3 generations, usually) that dates back to Europe. I am of European ancestry myself, have lived in Spain, and have plenty of European friends who know that there are plenty of European-origin Latin Americans, including many Cubans (a minority on the island of Cuba) and a significant majority of Cubans and Cuban-Americans in Miami. STOP GENERALIZING AND ACCEPT THAT ALTHOUGH MANY CUBANS ARE MIXED, MANY ARE BLACK AND MANY ARE WHITE. I simply do not care that you observe all mulatto Cubans in your working-class neighborhood full of recent immigrants. Almost all pre-1980 Cubans and some post-1980 Cubans do not fit that description.
About your possible move to Italy, it is a beautiful country and some of my ancestors came from there. Italy offers a pretty high standard of living, but know that if you are moving there as an immigrant without much money, you will experience a good deal of chusmerÃa if you live in working-class areas. Honestly, there is chusmerÃa everywhere in the world. It's not particular to Latin Americans or Miami and is quite widespread in Europe and North America, where the average citizen is not enlightened, sophisticated, or well-traveled. If neither you nor your girlfriend speaks Italian, why would you move to Italy? It isn't going to be easy to get a job that pays a middle-class income without speaking Italian. If I were you, I would move to Coral Gables/Pinecrest/Kendall/Miami Lakes/West Broward or to an affluent suburb outside of Washington, Boston, or NYC. Another suggestion would be Spain, as there are some beautiful, very family-friendly areas within central-city Madrid and to its north and west. If you are interested in that, I can give you more info...
Crisp, "you said that I don`t see many Cubans in the "milieu" where I live"...
ha ha.
Fontainbleau is populated by FIU students. I live in FB and I also lived in Westchester a few years ago. My next-door neighbor is Cuban and he teaches physocology in MDC.
I attended MDC (Kendall) and FIU (university park), and the majority of the students were Cubans. Even the faculty in MDCC was mainly Cuban as well.
It does not make any sense when you say that "I have not noticed the great population of white Cubans and that I need to get out of Fountainbleau more often".
Lie
Lie
Absurd
I work in a middle school where more than 90% of my students have Cuban background.
There are Cubans everywhere... (that`s not bad, I also have Cuban friends and coworkers)...
The great majority of the Cubans in Miami consider themselves to be White/euro Spaniards and that is far from the reality... super far from reality...light years far.... far far away...kinda Star Wars...and the death star....that far.... obiwankenobi rings a bell?... that far my friend.
HaHa
Cubans in Miami are mainly mullatoes.
For example, this is the typical Cuban and a member of the Cuban elite as well....
Please meet... Modesto Maidique aka "President of Florida International University".
(in the best of the cases... a Cuban looks like Maidique)
Now... I did not use an example of an average Cuban...
could be this one maybe....
Now...take a look at Jose Canseco. He belongs to the group of Cuban immigrants that migrated to USA decades ago (the new Cuban immigrants are darker). Canseco looks like the average Americanized Cuban...dark hair+dark eyes+light brown skin..mullatoe.
No, I don't think that those people are part of the Cuban elite.
I can show you thousand of pics of Cubans that look "Eurospaniards", for example, the most famous one, Andy Garcia, Jorge Mas, Valls, Goizueta, etc, etc.
Or on the other side, Fidel Castro and all of his cronies, Silvio Rodriguez, etc, etc.
And please, don't put the photo of Zapatero as a example of Spanish, he's a shame for the entire country.
Crisp, "you said that I don`t see many Cubans in the "milieu" where I live"...
ha ha.
Fontainbleau is populated by FIU students. I live in FB and I also lived in Westchester a few years ago. My next-door neighbor is Cuban and he teaches physocology in MDC.
I attended MDC (Kendall) and FIU (university park), and the majority of the students were Cubans. Even the faculty in MDCC was mainly Cuban as well.
It does not make any sense when you say that "I have not noticed the great population of white Cubans and that I need to get out of Fountainbleau more often".
Lie
Lie
Absurd
I work in a middle school where more than 90% of my students have Cuban background.
There are Cubans everywhere... (that`s not bad, I also have Cuban friends and coworkers)...
The great majority of the Cubans in Miami consider themselves to be White/euro Spaniards and that is far from the reality... super far from reality...light years far.... far far away...kinda Star Wars...and the death star....that far.... obiwankenobi rings a bell?... that far my friend.
HaHa
Cubans in Miami are mainly mullatoes.
For example, this is the typical Cuban and a member of the Cuban elite as well....
Please meet... Modesto Maidique aka "President of Florida International University".
Does Maidique (Above) look like a white/Euro Spaniard to you????
NO
Again...does Maidique look like a white/EuroSpaniard to anyone (not just you)????
NO
Is Maidique mullatoe???
YES
(in the best of the cases... a Cuban looks like Maidique)
Now... I did not use an example of an average Cuban...
could be this one maybe....
Now...take a look at Jose Canseco. He belongs to the group of Cuban immigrants that migrated to USA decades ago (the new Cuban immigrants are darker). Canseco looks like the average Americanized Cuban...dark hair+dark eyes+light brown skin..mullatoe.
Now.. Canseco and Maidique are part of the Cuban elite... and the majority of the adult Cubans look like them....
One last time....
Cubans = White/EuroSpaniards + Africans
Hundreds of thousands of White/EuroSpaniards
+ Plus +
Hundreds of thousands of Africans
=
Cubans
Crisp, I am not insulting Cubans...
The great majority of Cubans are mullatoes...
That`s why Cuban women are attractive.
Now, the offprings of Cubans and White nonhispanics are white...
For example, Cameron Diaz (German + Cuban)
Again....
they are mainly mulatoes...and that is not an insult...
Now, if the reality bothers you....you are probably racist...
CUBANS ARE CAFE CON LECHE.
I am not one of your middle school students, so you can stop doing A + B = C equations, posting pictures, and posting links from Wikipedia. I am not an idiot. I realize that most Cubans on the island of Cuba are mixed white/black. However, what you fail to understand is that a substantial majority of pre-Mariel Cubans and Cuban-Americans in South Florida are non-mixed white. Clearly you are not interacting with this group if you are under the impression that the Miami Cuban elite is composed of mostly mulattoes. Again, I am not one of your students, so you shouldn't feel the need to speak to me in overly-broad generalizations. When you are talking to educated people, you should know better than to claim things like: "Americans are white!" "Cubans are mulatto!" "Dominicans are black!"
Quite frankly, I am not okay with your characterization of Miami Cubans because it is factually incorrect. Does that make me a racist? Why don't you ask two of my best friends: one is black and the other is mulatto. Neither is from Miami and neither is Cuban; the overwhelming majority of my Miami Cuban friends are non-mixed white and can trace all of their grandparents and/or great-grandparents to Galicia and the Canary Islands.
I already know what Wikipedia says about Cubans, and I already know that there are many Cubans that are mixed... so save yourself the trouble and stop posting pictures and links as if they are authority on this matter.
PS - I never said "milieu" in reference to your neighborhood. That was Leovigildo.
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