[zthatzmanz28]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

That would be nice, but it's not a practical solution.

If you want state of the art institutions and infrastructure, you must pay a state of the art price.

Otherwise, you'll have crappy infrastructure, but at least you'll keep a few bucks in your pocket so you can use to pay extra for whatever's lacking in the infrastructure anyway and miss out on investments that are looking for that lacking infrastructure when searching for a place to expand, right?

There are OTHER solutions, but those aren't very popular in this political environment.

Isn't Michigan one of the lowest fee states for big trucks? What tears up the raos faster? My pinto or that 18 wheeler hauling 10 tons of stuff?

[ram2]

Originally Posted by magellan

The problem is is that Michigan is still heavily involved in manufacturing, and cutting back on weight limits would mean higher shipping charges, fewer parts shipped (which affects LEAN manufacturing), and the business community would never go for it.

How do the other 49 states survive with lower truck weight limits? Michigan is not the only state with manufacturing.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by michigan83

I would be curious to know what the heavy truck traffic is in Wisconsin per capita compared to Michigan. I would guess that, even relative to population, we have a lot more truck traffic than Wisconsin.

Also, I think Wisconsin is less likely to experience the freeze-thaw cycle that Michigan does, since Wisconsin winters are a little colder without the moderating effect of Lake Michigan. I think the freeze-thaw pattern is the main cause of potholes. Water goes into the cracks during a thaw, and then when it refreezes it ruins the pavement.

Finally, does Wisconsin have as much swampy/marshy land as Michigan? SE Michigan especially has a lot of this type of land, which is not conducive to good roads. Having a lot of population living on this type of land is a recipe for terrible roads.

I am not an expert, but it seems like the issue might have more variables than just "Wisconsin's state government is doing a good job and Michigan's isn't". I think we have a lot of challenges here that have made our roads rough for a long time and will continue to give us rough roads in the future.

Northern Ohio has the same weather as lower Michigan. Why are northern Ohio's roads in better condition than Michigan's when both states have similar gas taxes?

[magellan]

Originally Posted by ram2

Northern Ohio has the same weather as lower Michigan. Why are northern Ohio's roads in better condition than Michigan's when both states have similar gas taxes?

Are you sure other states' roads are in good shape? And only Michigan's are bad?

Roads in Ohio need fixed, construction coalition says - Business First

[Trail twister]

As a former trucker I can tell you the run of the mill 18 wheelers you see on Michigan roads are not permited to have a Total weight over 80,000 pounds. Last I knew only the gravel haulers in Michigan had the special permit to haul 120,000 pounds. Wisconsins fuel tax is actually a bit higher in Wisconsin. Wisconsin also doesn'thave that stupidspeed limit difference on the interstates Michigan has. Just that should tell you the people in Lansing have their heads where the sun never shines.
Another thing Wisconsin does is leaving the cross lanes when they are working on a 4 lane highway. Drive on 94,29 or any other 4 lane road and you will see blocked off crossings they open up when repairing both lanes on the other side. Michigan waste lots of money putting them in and then tearing them out. Was really funny to see them in 2009 build the one just east of Davison on 69 when they did the west bound lanes then tear it out and then rebuild it in 2010 when they did the east bound lanes. I do believe they did leave the one in on 69 near Swarts Creek (near the race track).
At least by raising the tax we can avoid the cost by not driving as much. If they raise the plate fees ya got to pay it if you want plates.
Just another snow job on the people of Michigan.

[djmilf]

From Commuting | Snyder eyes wholesale tax on fuel, regional vehicle taxes | The Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/article/20111025/METRO05/110250420/1409/metro/Snyder-eyes-wholesale-tax-on-fuel--regional-vehicle-taxes - broken link) ...

Michigan Governor Rick Snyder is proposing to replace the current 19 cents per gallon gasoline tax with a wholesale tax on gasoline. In addition, counties and regional authorities (but not the state) would be able to charge a tax on vehicle registration fees, subect to approval by local voters.

The first thing I notice is that the 15 cent per gallon tax on diesel fuel is unaffected - so heavy trucking is untouched by this proposal.

The second thing to point out is that the current 19 cent tax is a fixed tax that hasn't increased since 1997. Governor Snyder's proposal changes this to a wholesale tax of an unnamed percentage. This means that as the price of wholesale gasoline rises and falls then the amount of tax per gallon also rises and falls. The current 19 cent tax for a gallon of gasoline works out to about 6% of the price of the gallon. But that 19 cents per gallon only pulls in about half of the necessary revenue to maintain the state's federally funded roads. I would expect that the new gasoline wholesale tax would need to be 12% in order to fully fund the road work and to continue bringing in the $400 million in federal transportation matching funding. There currently is a danger that the state could lose part of its federal matching funds unless the state increases its own spending on transportation.

The last point is that the increase in vehicle registration fees will be approved by county/regional voters, collected at the county/regional level and used at the county/regional level. If you and your neighbors don't want the increased vehicle registration fees and improved local roads, then simply vote down any such proposal.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by Trail twister

As a former trucker I can tell you the run of the mill 18 wheelers you see on Michigan roads are not permited to have a Total weight over 80,000 pounds. Last I knew only the gravel haulers in Michigan had the special permit to haul 120,000 pounds. Wisconsins fuel tax is actually a bit higher in Wisconsin. Wisconsin also doesn'thave that stupidspeed limit difference on the interstates Michigan has. Just that should tell you the people in Lansing have their heads where the sun never shines.
Another thing Wisconsin does is leaving the cross lanes when they are working on a 4 lane highway. Drive on 94,29 or any other 4 lane road and you will see blocked off crossings they open up when repairing both lanes on the other side. Michigan waste lots of money putting them in and then tearing them out. Was really funny to see them in 2009 build the one just east of Davison on 69 when they did the west bound lanes then tear it out and then rebuild it in 2010 when they did the east bound lanes. I do believe they did leave the one in on 69 near Swarts Creek (near the race track).
At least by raising the tax we can avoid the cost by not driving as much. If they raise the plate fees ya got to pay it if you want plates.
Just another snow job on the people of Michigan.

The stupid thing with Michigan is the freeway speed limit used to be 70mph for ALL vehicles prior to the start of the 55mph speed limit in 1974. Why there is a split speed limit now reeks of revenue generation.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by magellan

Are you sure other states' roads are in good shape? And only Michigan's are bad?

Roads in Ohio need fixed, construction coalition says - Business First

Yes. Have someone blindfold you and drive you acoss the Ohio or Indiana border. You can feel the difference in road quality immediately.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by djmilf

From Commuting | Snyder eyes wholesale tax on fuel, regional vehicle taxes | The Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/article/20111025/METRO05/110250420/1409/metro/Snyder-eyes-wholesale-tax-on-fuel--regional-vehicle-taxes - broken link) ...

Michigan Governor Rick Snyder is proposing to replace the current 19 cents per gallon gasoline tax with a wholesale tax on gasoline. In addition, counties and regional authorities (but not the state) would be able to charge a tax on vehicle registration fees, subect to approval by local voters.

The first thing I notice is that the 15 cent per gallon tax on diesel fuel is unaffected - so heavy trucking is untouched by this proposal.

The second thing to point out is that the current 19 cent tax is a fixed tax that hasn't increased since 1997. Governor Snyder's proposal changes this to a wholesale tax of an unnamed percentage. This means that as the price of wholesale gasoline rises and falls then the amount of tax per gallon also rises and falls. The current 19 cent tax for a gallon of gasoline works out to about 6% of the price of the gallon. But that 19 cents per gallon only pulls in about half of the necessary revenue to maintain the state's federally funded roads. I would expect that the new gasoline wholesale tax would need to be 12% in order to fully fund the road work and to continue bringing in the $400 million in federal transportation matching funding. There currently is a danger that the state could lose part of its federal matching funds unless the state increases its own spending on transportation.

The last point is that the increase in vehicle registration fees will be approved by county/regional voters, collected at the county/regional level and used at the county/regional level. If you and your neighbors don't want the increased vehicle registration fees and improved local roads, then simply vote down any such proposal.

Why makes you think higher taxes will yield better roads? The gas taxes are higher now than they were 40+ years ago and the roads still don't get fixed. And remember the average vehicle is lighter today compared to 1970, so there is less wear in that regard.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by ram2

Yes. Have someone blindfold you and drive you acoss the Ohio or Indiana border. You can feel the difference in road quality immediately.

That's anecdotal evidence. Do you have anything that compares the overall condition of roads in those states compared to Michigan? Considering that Wisconsin, Illinois and Ohio are having huge budget issues, way bigger than Michigan's, I find it hard to believe that their roads are being maintained well.