[Huckleberry3911948]

Originally Posted by Sociologist

As someone who works in higher education I am astounded by the attitudes of current students who are undergraduates, mainly freshman who ask me this question all the time.. "is it worth my time to go to college"? While many recent grads are unemployed, it is extremely frustrating to hear these attitudes from students, and as a secondary blow, our continued reduction in public education funding in this state is setting the course for our future. While current enrollment numbers at many public Michigan schools is at historic highs, many kids fall short of finishing and get caught in low wage service industry positions. What are some of the thoughts from readers on this issue?

college degrees
highest depreciation rate next to a car.
stick with jr college vocational or use gi bill,
4 year degree, master and doctorate gets you less and less
what you get is ego boost and a big fat student loan,
worse arrears will guarantee you to be unemployable TRW review is standard hiring procedure. freshman are not always so dumb

stephen s
san diego ca

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Read the posts - no one said that education was a silver bullet, but yes, it at least gives you more bullets to shoot with.

This is probably the best summary of everything here - getting a college education isn't a guarantee, but it does give you a whole lot more opportunities. The fact that there's even a debate about whether a degree is important is bass-ackwards, IMHO. If you have an industry-changing business idea along with the intelligence and work ethic to build a company in the manner of Bill Gates, then more power to you. However, it's incredibly dangerous to argue that the exception is the rule when that's clearly not the case for 99.9% of the population. As someone noted earlier, just because some college grads can't find work doesn't mean a college degree isn't worth anything. In fact, employers are generally asking for more MORE educational credentials, NOT less. When HR people are combing through hundreds or even thousands of resumes for an open position, guess which ones are getting thrown in the trash right away? Simply put, if your educational credentials don't meet the base level, you're not even going to get a look. In fact, your credentials are going to need to vastly exceed that base level if you want a realistic chance. Once again, education ISN'T a guarantee for success, but when among the general population the #1 attribute associated with higher incomes is higher educational levels, you would think people would get the hint. That might not have been the case back in the 1960s and 1970s, but it's definitely the case today and will be from now on. Either adjust to this reality or don't complain that opportunities are passing you by.

[scottmi]

Originally Posted by Bunky39

college degrees
highest depreciation rate next to a car.
stick with jr college vocational or use gi bill,
4 year degree, master and doctorate gets you less and less
what you get is ego boost and a big fat student loan,
worse arrears will guarantee you to be unemployable TRW review is standard hiring procedure. freshman are not always so dumb

stephen s
san diego ca

While I agree that 2-yr. degrees are a great value for many professions right now (in terms of time lost due to school vs. school costs vs. potential payout compared to HS Diploma), I don't think people complete 4-yr. degrees for "ego boosts".

Yes, people feel better when they have a Bachelor's compared to an Associates...but why shouldn't they!?! They did at LEAST twice as much work!

Plus, lets keep in mind that many careers are so competitive and in-depth nowadays having a 4-yr. degree is the ONLY way you'll be good enough to be worthwhile when you graduate. For many fields, 2-yr. degrees and lower don't exist.

[rutha1105]

If the anecdotal evidence here and by my own observation is correct-- the education industry is in the same condition as the American car industry in the 90s. There is too much inventory. So the educated among you are reacting exactly the same way as Ford and GM--you are pushing bigger, better, faster--Escalades and Navigators and Hummers when you can't sell Blazers and Explorers. I think the market is saturated and there isn't a big market for the really big SUVs- or PhDs. Everybody on the MI forum seems to have 20/20 hindsight for the auto industry. My challenge to you is this-- instead of complaining that you can't sell your Masters Degree five years from now, figure this out! Should you be downsizing and getting better fuel economy? This country is going to be small service-oriented companies in the very near future, we have sold all the manufacturing jobs and nobody wants to work a call center. It will be interesting to see if in 15 or 20 years there are major Universities in bankruptcy because your education needs to be in a completely different direction.

[scottmi]

Originally Posted by rutha1105

If the anecdotal evidence here and by my own observation is correct-- the education industry is in the same condition as the American car industry in the 90s. There is too much inventory. So the educated among you are reacting exactly the same way as Ford and GM--you are pushing bigger, better, faster--Escalades and Navigators and Hummers when you can't sell Blazers and Explorers. I think the market is saturated and there isn't a big market for the really big SUVs- or PhDs. Everybody on the MI forum seems to have 20/20 hindsight for the auto industry. My challenge to you is this-- instead of complaining that you can't sell your Masters Degree five years from now, figure this out! Should you be downsizing and getting better fuel economy? This country is going to be small service-oriented companies in the very near future, we have sold all the manufacturing jobs and nobody wants to work a call center. It will be interesting to see if in 15 or 20 years there are major Universities in bankruptcy because your education needs to be in a completely different direction.

Major universities will NEVER be in bankruptcy. Why? Because even the low level / mid range STATE colleges have piles of money in cash savings for emergency purposes.

For example, at the mid-Michigan University I attend, I recently found out by working in one of the academic departments that the school has over $90 million in cash just sitting in a bank. All the while they are saying to students "Oh you must pay the large increase in tuition because Granholm and the State keeps cutting our funding!"

Fact of the matter is, universities can charge whatever they want and will be in business because like the OIL industry (not the car industry) 99% of people WILL NEED UNIVERSITY DEGREES from here on out, no question.

As for whether or not PhDs are overkill - yes, for some fields, it makes no sense. But to get a job at a University or high-level research company it is absolutely required. And look at any "Best Careers List".....University professor is almost always near or at the top of the lists nationally.

You forget the most desired position in all of employment:

TENURE

[odinloki1]

Here's the main problem with Michigan right now from my point of view (I'm not trying to be critical of the state or its people, I love it there and would give anything to move back from the hell that is Arizona).

Ever since Reagan it has been ok for companies to move to wherever they can exploit workers the most (like auto companies manufacturing where there are no human rights). As a result, greedy companies leave places that are concerned with workers rights to where they can make the most money. Perhaps this is not the best route, all it causes is estrangement from family and unhappy people (I was force to move to AZ to find a job and I have no family or friends here and I hate it more than anything). If you let the economy control everything it will crush anything in its way (family, morals, people etc) just so a few at the top can make more money.

Because all those companies leave, the college graduates are forced to move in order to find a job to payoff student loans.

Would you go to college if it meant you had to move away from family and friends and everything that made you happy. I was a teacher in AZ (moved because no jobs in MI) and now work at a hospital (because being a teacher in AZ is hell), and I would rather work for minimum wage somewhere where I was happy then make a bit more money in a hellhole.

For me going to college was not worth it and it wouldn't be worth it unless it meant I could work where I wanted to live and be near the people that mattered to me.

Personally I think the tax rate should be the same for all large businesses (500+) employees. Across country so they don't move just to avoid taxes so cities don't give huge deals just to recruit a Wal Mart. Companies should serve the people and community not the other way around.

Eh well,, sorry for being such a complainer. Just depressed about my situation I guess, but hey, can you blame me.

For me I question

[bryan61]

Reagan was the author of NAFTA, Clinton signed it into law. The voting public of the United States handed the spoiled autoworkers in Michigan a pink slip because the unions and politicians got too greedy. I made parts for Ford, GM and Chrysler up until 2000 when my job was shipped to Canada. I watched as congressmen and senators made promisies to us and then went to Washington and put auto manufacturing on a table to be carved up like a thanksgiving day turkey. The good news is the carcass is almost picked clean. The entry into a world market and the subsequent destruction of the US manufacturing base has been a bipartisan rape of the working man and his family. He11 the republicans did exactly what their constituents wanted it was the dems that lied to the folk that voted them into office.

[odinloki1]

I agree completely with what you said. I personally think the Dems are worse than the Republicans. The Republicans are more honest with their free market attempts to screw us through globalization. The Dems just give a lip service. Maybe we should try the Green Party

[Lola Granola]

Originally Posted by odinloki1

For me going to college was not worth it and it wouldn't be worth it unless it meant I could work where I wanted to live and be near the people that mattered to me.

Perhaps the issue is not "college degree vs. none" but "type of major."

Teaching is a difficult job... and it appears you were not suited to it.

With the correct major, a person CAN choose where to live and work. You have to do your research wisely, determine what you are suited to, and choose your major accordingly. A person who chooses a field that is in high demand and that he is suited to will likely be able to go wherever he wants.

[odinloki1]

What happens when everyone picks high demand fields? Overstock of workers and suppressed wages because employers can due to competition. Simply put every job should be paying a liveable wage and we should elect leaders who can help make that happen.