[grace_explosion]

I'm in Michigan. I'd like to leave. Have family here... but the economy is bad... and I know it's better elsewhere.

I'll stay for family... or I'd be with others that are leaving.

[wanderer74]

These threads continue to frustrate me so much, I should really stop checking in. It's not as simple as getting more education. It's definitely not as simple as working 3 minimum wage jobs if that's all you can get - here in the Saginaw/Midland/Bay City area it took me 7 months to get ONE part time minimum wage job! I have a bachelors degree and 5 years of experience as a writer and editor and cannot find full-time employment and have been looking since last summer. I'm the first to admit my degree (double major in sociology & technical writing) isn't in the type of major like nursing where they're desperate for people, but I honestly never expected to be fully unemployed for 7 months after graduation and when I finally did get a job it was part-time retail at minimum wage. I was 28 when I went back for my degree, since everyone (including our governor) said that I just needed more education to become more employable. Well that was wrong! And it's not just my major - I know people with computer science degrees who are unemployed because they don't have enough years of experience. I know someone with 10 years of professional graphic design experience who's now working sporadic temp factory work jobs because that's all that's available since his old employer closed up. There are only a handful of fields that are really looking for workers - and there's only a shortage of a few thousand workers at most, compared to the tens of thousands of Michigan adults who are unemployed (to say nothing of people like me who are ridiculously UNDERemployed considering our qualifications) - obviously even if all of us who "chose the wrong path" could get trained for the "right" fields, before long there would be a glut of workers in those fields too. The economy is changing everywhere (I just read an article the other day that supermarkets lead job growth in Arizona - how much do you think those jobs pay?) and I honestly don't believe its possible right now for every motivated, hard-working person to find adequate work in Michigan of all places.

The fact of the matter is that - particularly once you get outside of Oakland County or Grand Rapids - there aren't many jobs even for degreed professionals with experience in Michigan, and once you have that degree and professional experience you have a harder time even getting a minimum wage job because you're overqualified. I'd say that if you're gainfully employed in Michigan it might be better to count your blessings and look at the rest of us with compassion than to assume that you earned your good fortune by doing everything right.

[nycjefftrain]

Originally Posted by A2Mich

OK, first post here, but here is my opinion. First of all, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT AC,HEATING, ETC....you will be taking work away from me! These jobs, however are not AT ALL looking for workers right now....we're slow right now. Yes, they do pay a decent wage, and you can learn a lot in 12-18 months, but you probably won't get a job right away...most HVAC contractors want experience, of course, and generally will not take an applicant without experience, even on an apprenticeship basis. As for the Big 3 providing info and cash to get you into another job, I disagree with that statement, though. It's not Ford, GM, or Chrysler's fault that some of their workers may not have any marketable work-related skills that would be useful in other jobs. If I was laid off from my job of many years, I doubt that my current employer would give me information or money on how to become a plumber or electrician. It's a shame that so many Big 3 workers have lost and may lose their jobs, but it is up to the individual to get the necessary training for the next stage of their life. When I left my previous career to enter the Wonderful World of Fixing Broken Furnaces and AC units, nobody gave me a DIME to get further education and training. It was all up to me. As for getting into a skilled trade at 45 years old, it is possible, but may be difficult.

Ummm, well...somebody asked for options and I was just trying to be helpful. Also, if you've read anything about the buyout program from Ford, GM, or Chrysler, it is very generous and provides money to further your education. That's why I mentioned it. I'm just like you...I've been laid off and had to bust my ass to find a new job and re-educate myself with no help from a previous employer. But the big 3 has offered assistance. The guy who I was responding to mentioned he was leaving one of the big 3...I was just passing info along. I agree its not the company's fault for the lack of skills of their former employees. But there really is nothing to disagree with me on. It's a fact. The Big 3 offer many options for bought-out workers. This includes financial and educational options. If I was leaving the big 3, I would take them up on their assistance.

[uncertaintimes]

amen wanderer74, Its like watching people from Iraq telling us to get out then a pendent tell us that the people want us there. I guess blowing us up is their way of welcome wagon.
Things in Michigan are bad as they have been since the great Dep. I am not saying it is a Great Dep. yet but it has blown past the 70s Recession. I lived it so no idiot who trys to tell me I have no idea what I am talking about people are buying ice cream is going to tell me I did not live what I did.

Home values are dropping like a rock in almost the whole state, I have even heard that Marquette is booming. I have been to Marquette and it most certainly is not.
Grand Rapids is doing a bit better than the rest of the state because it was not built directly on the auto industry.
But it is not "booming"

Look at the long range, there is nothing on the horizon for the whole country that is going to pull us out of this. If you look at Hoovers term in office he went into office with booming times, much like bush, when the down turn started he felt that it was a 6 month thing that would work itself out, much like bush, When the stock market crashed he felt that giving tax breaks to the rich would trickle down to stimulate the economy much like bush. He was to slow to react and we went in to a deep recession that took a world war to pull us out, Hoover also felt that helping the poor was the job of charity's not the job of the government. Much like bush and the Republicans like Limbaugh.
The problems we face today are even more complicated because they are a running out of natural rec. and damaging of the world. I am hoping for 5 a gallon this summer because it is the only thing that will make people change. If we do not start to change now it will be chaos when we have no other choice. People in this country are to used to the cheap tit of oil. and it is much like being hooked on drugs, why conserve just buy a bigger car to cart one skinny a$$ bitc$ around. Not good for anyone.
Then lie to yourself that you are only thinking of your childs safty. LOL
Well at 4 a gallon you can always polish the fenders.

[cowcat]

Originally Posted by wanderer74

These threads continue to frustrate me so much, I should really stop checking in.

Well, the worst part is that the posters stirring the pot, including the OP troll who has not reposted except under a different name, do not not even live in MI.

[cowcat]

Original post from this thread:

Originally Posted by cpt.ron

I just got back from Myrtle Beach, things are slowing there. homes are not selling, but it is a far cry from the Michigan economy.

Compare to:
//www.city-data.com/forum/south...ml#post3738758

Where's our friendly SLD from?
//www.city-data.com/forum/arkan...ml#post3738685

ARKANSAS!!!

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by theboysmom

I read the paper and watch the news often. In fact, I read an article in paper that said there were literally hundreds on jobs in MI, none of them in the auto industry though. It's kinda my fav article about this whole thing because it really drove home the point that there is employment, people are just either unwilling or unable to retrain.

You can't merely look at the number of job openings or claims that someone's trying to fill a position without also asking about how many people are applying for those jobs. Although there may be "lots" of jobs in bulk, if there's a large oversupply of qualified labor to do those jobs then there really aren't too many jobs in those fields.

I can't comment on any specific field; I'm just raising the issue in order to encourage people to ask those kinds of questions and to dig deeper. So...the jobs are going unfilled...are they offering market wages or hoping to make lowball offers? Are they turning down everyone who isn't one of the top 5% of the people in the field?

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by detshen

I generally recommend some kind of specialized training, it doesn't have to be a 4 year degree, and student loans are available to help. I wish there were jobs for everyone, but there aren't so training will have to happen. The whole country is in trouble, just moving won't solve all anyone's problems.

Eventually people will discover that the supply of jobs available for college graduates and for those with training is also limited. After all, in the extreme case, if 100% of the populace had college degrees or vocational training it seems doubtful that the overall situation would really be all that different than it is today. Heck, there are already surpluses of college degree holders in several fields.

I just with that the media and our politicians would realize that expensive and time-consuming education is not the magical cure for our nation's economic problems and that what we really need are sound economic policies.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Well, the funny thing is how there are so many people in MI (and on here) who bash education as useless, despite the fact that stats show that someone holding a bachelors degree on average makes 50% more than someone without one - a figure that's been slowly rising since WWII.

What would happen to that figure if the number of people with college educations doubled while the number of jobs that make use of college education remained static? Also, does that figure account for the monetary costs and opportunity costs of going to college? What happens if someone invests large amounts of time and money, taking on large amounts of student loan debt to enter a field where the colleges graduate twice as many people as what the market can afford? (Law school is an excellent example of this.)

Moreover, is it possible that the relationship between the income and the college education is, to some extent, correlative and not causal? That is to say, is it possible that part of the reason why college educated adults earn more is because they tend to be rational, responsible, hard working people and that they earn more, not because they make direct or even peripheral use of their college educations but because they are rational, responsible, hard working people?

Let's question the dogma and the conventional wisdom before we drink the Kool Aid, shall we?

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

College can open many many doors for you. Your age is irrelevant other than it may make attending full time a bit difficult.

What about age discrimination? I'm guessing that it's more difficult to break into a new field when you're older than when you're younger. If you are older, you need to take that into account, especially if you're considering a field where age discrimination is either rampant or more prevalent (such as, say, IT or computers).