[Papachops]

I started writing this as a respose to the "GREEN" thread, but as I feel it encompasses more than that topic, I decided to give it it's own thread.

People seem to think that going "Green" means donning sandles and hemp clothing, replacing your cheeseburgers with tofu burgers and your dvd collection with 30 copies of Fried Green Tomatoes. I support going green, I also hunt, fish and wear boots and flannel every chance I get. I'm also into growing/raising my own food, rainwater collection for the house and irrigation and composting toilets and bins. Solar and wind energy will come when I can afford it.

I think the way to a better tomorrow will benefit greatly with the development of cleaner and better technologies, but its just a step in the direction we need to go as a nation. The key to a better tomorrow lies in personal responsibility, self sufficiency, family and community values.

A great example of personal resposibility are people like Ivorytickler who saves their compact fluorescent bulbs to dispose of them properly instead of just chucking them in the bin. Picking up litter and leaving a place cleaner than when you got there. Being active in your local and national governments... (VOTE!) Don't even get me started on the way people drive - and let their kids drive at 16. I feel that 99% of vehicular accidents are cause and effect.

Manageable debt falls into personal responsibility as well. Being so far in debt that both parents have to work full time to barely make ends meet puts a lot of strain on the whole family. Falling behind on bills leads to even more agitation, unhappiness and irritability with spouses, children, coworkers and complete strangers. It starts a cycle we see all too often that leads to depression, physical abuse, alcohol and drug abuse, job loss, divorce, children who hate their home life and fall in with the wrong crowd and grow up to follow the example set by their parents.

Being more self sufficient can be anything from growing and raising most of your own food, to being able to make your own butter when you're cooking a meal and find you don't have enough. Instead of running to the store put 2 cups of Heavy Whipping Cream in a mason jar. Give it to the kids to shake while you continue cooking. Makes 1 cup of butter and 1 cup of buttermilk in 10 minutes. Not to mention the kids have a blast and learn something new.

Family Values: Less time in front of the TV or playing video games and more time interacting as a family will have a huge impact on today's society in respect to the current state of greed, violence, intolerance and sense of entitlement. We recently had Valentine's Day. Instead of spending money on cheap-looking cards at the store, my family spent a few hours (over 3 days) with the kids making the cards for their classmates. We make everything we can as a family. The children are our future. It matters little what we accomplish today if the children aren't ready and able to carry the ball tomorrow.

Community Values are just as important. Buying local is very important. Support your local businesses and family farms, and they will support you. Bartering will make a big comeback to those who are community conscious and have little to no debt. If you were a mechanic, would you repair a family's vehicle for an equal amount of beef or pork? If my neighbors fell on hard times, I know my family would be there to help and nobody would go hungry. If I broke my leg or worse, could I count on my neighbors to help sow or reap the fields while I healed? The mechanic would probably be out there as well to get him some more of that good pig, fresh veggies and a fat turkey for his family on Thanksgiving!

Its not going to happen overnight, that's why we need to support it. People say that Big Business runs and controls this country, but that's not the case: the people do. It's through the people's apathy, greed, sense of entitlement and their want for instant gratification that big business wins and we lose. Lots of great technology has been developed over the years, then bought up and shelved by these companies.

These are just some feelings I have. Feel free to contribute more to this idea or citicize it, but please be constructive.

[cedershack]

i really cant believe no one has responded to this yet. but i agree with you papachops. i believe if we go back the way of early 1900's America will be America again. i try to live my life like my grandparents did, obviously with some modern twists though. thanks for the post and i support your way of life

[michmoldman]

Like it or not, we are being forced back to that way of living. Hmm..maybe someone up there is trying to tell us something?

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by cedershack

i really cant believe no one has responded to this yet. but i agree with you papachops. i believe if we go back the way of early 1900's America will be America again. i try to live my life like my grandparents did, obviously with some modern twists though. thanks for the post and i support your way of life

Hmmm? That would be with a life expectancy of about 50. That would do away with the need for social security, pensions and medicare.

Problem is most of us live in cities now. It would be pretty hard to go back to the way of life 100 years ago. Lots of things we'd have to give up like refrigeration, indoor plumbing, washers, dryers, dishwashers, television, computers, cell phones, heck phones, cars, etc, etc, etc... Sorry, I'd want more than a few modern twists thrown in here. I'd want most of them.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by michmoldman

Like it or not, we are being forced back to that way of living. Hmm..maybe someone up there is trying to tell us something?

Definitely being forced back to a simpler way of living. Not sure how this is going to play out yet though. I'd love to ditch my car but mass transit isn't in place for me to do so.

[michmoldman]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Definitely being forced back to a simpler way of living. Not sure how this is going to play out yet though. I'd love to ditch my car but mass transit isn't in place for me to do so.

I wouldnt go as far as going back 100 years, but I think we are beign forced to spend much more wisely. Not such a bad thing either.

[Papachops]

To quote the author John Seymour
"Self-sufficiency is not "going back" to some idealized past in which people grubbed for their food with primitive implements and burned each other for witchcraft. It is going forward to a new and better sort of life,"
"Self-sufficiency does not mean "going back" to the acceptance of a lower standard of living. On the contrary, it is the striving for a higher standard of living, for food which is fresh and organically-grown and good, for the good life in pleasant surroundings, for the health of body and
peace of mind which come with hard varied work in the open air and for the satisfaction that comes from doing difficult and intricate jobs well and successfully."

You'd be surprised to find out all the many things you can do to become more self sufficient, even in a city. I warn you though it can become quite addicting. It can start with small things like baking fresh bread from scratch, then making your own pasta, then making a window box to grow tomatoes and herbs. Then putting it all together for home made lasagna and fresh bread. Pretty soon every time you think about something you need, you'll ask yourself weather or not you can make it. The key is to start small. Just one step at a time and before you know it you'll have a whole new set of skills that everyone you know will be envious of.

Oh and BTW, if you have a good internet connection your TV is obsolete and a waste of money. My wife and I watch our shows every week before bed...online, with no commercials, and on our time.

[xlabel]

Good topic and I've found myself recently visiting discount book stores and thrift shops purchasing how to books on many things. The more skills you can develop to fix things around the house the longer you may be able to keep a household item from ending up in a landfill and save yourself some bucks also. Virtually anything that can be prepared or repaired there seems to be a forum for it online.

Food was mentioned and I'm not one of the doom and gloomers that's predicting severe depression and empty grocery store shelves but what if it did get that bad? It might be a good time to learn survival skills needed in a worst case scenario.

[stanman13]

Originally Posted by Papachops

"Self-sufficiency is not "going back" to some idealized past in which people grubbed for their food with primitive implements and burned each other for witchcraft. It is going forward to a new and better sort of life,"

That is well said and the heart of public misperception about self-reliance and simplified living.

Oh and BTW, if you have a good internet connection your TV is obsolete and a waste of money. My wife and I watch our shows every week before bed...online, with no commercials, and on our time.

I'm giving up my internet un-savviness, but how do you watch current shows online?

[Papachops]

Check out sites like Sidereel and Hulu for starters. There's also the channel's website sometimes, like ABC. Our computer is in our bedroom, so we can lay in bed and watch TV Shows and Movies comfortably. I also reccomend a nice big widescreen monitor.