Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Warning: Some online-worry-warting will occur here...
So yesterday was 9/11. It always makes me think about how things were then, and how they are now.
I remember the smoke from the towers on the t.v screen. And I remember as a 14 year old feeling so very scared.
Now, 7 years later I can't help but feel the same way. Guess I really need to stay away from the politics forum, because all I see when I go there is talk of war with Russia, war with Iran, people bashing the Iraq war.
The first two, quite frankly, scare the beejesus out of me. I know and care for many people that are in the military.Four of them Ive known since childhood; another is my boyfriend and likely my future husband.The rest are his friends that have also become my own.
The thought, the idea of sending these boys that I know and love to potentially die at some politician's whim tears at my heart. Nothing makes 9/11 more real than actually knowing the soldiers and sailors that will risk their lives for the will of their country.
I hear people blaming the politicians that voted for the war...and dont get me wrong...politicians are rotten. But they couldn't have gone to war if America's people at the time hadnt been demanding blood. You cant tell me our people dont have a voice in what those politicians do. If we yell loud enough, they have to listen ( The amnesty bill is evidence of this)
Ive always got this kind of dread in the back of my mind that every time I see one of these boys on leave or something, that it just might be the last time. I dont want to make the impression that I am a "dove" as my father calls it. If someone does something severe enough, Im all for fighting. But what I dont understand is when the threat ( or even veiled threat) of war is tossed around as carelessly as a shoe thats been worn too long.
Do any of ya'll ever feel any of these things, or am I being an overly sentimental and worrying female?? Im sorry this thread is long...but I just kinda wanted to get this out there and see other's take on it.
This is likely to sound very harsh, for which I do apologize.
I am career military. I enlisted in the 70's back when America hated it's military. I never served in Vietnam, though because I wore a uniform, I was spit at. I was called names for wearing a uniform. I was once arrested and spent a night in a jail cell because the cops wanted to hassle a servicemember. So I do remember back before Americans decided they liked their military.
I served 14 years of my career onboard subs, focusing on strategies to win a nuclear war. The subs that I served onboard had the capability of launching 16 and later 24 satellites into space, and from orbit dropping up to 14 nuc warheads each. We were the deterrent, and we did scare the heck out of the planet. And in doing so, it appears that we did win that conflict.
Later I served 6 years doing Law Enforcement duties overseas.
I have seen terrorist bombings of civilian populations. It has been happening for a long time. It has been going on in many nations. Many 'innocent' civilians have been dying everywhere.
We know this, or we should know this.
We knew that America was being targeted for attacks. Many people were arrested, and we did focus a lot of effort on trying to defend America.
The US military saw the problem coming, we followed the previous mindset and we armoured government buildings and military bases. We had a shortage of servicemembers so we even began 'stop-loss'. We stopped allowing servicemembers to get out of their contracts, to temporarily hold them just a bit longer. Since it was so obvious that an attack was coming.
I was in the last wave of retirees allowed to retire before 'stop-loss' completely shutdown the window for servicemembers to get out on retirement. Many of my buddies did not make their scheduled retirement dates. They continued to serve and have now been allowed to retire years later.
Nobody expected and predicted the method of attack that was used. It caught everyone by surprise.
So many people had been coming in through the borders, and have been busted, sent to prison for life sentences. And yet some got through undetected. The media does not cover those who were caught each month, trying to bomb our civilian population.
I am sorry that 9/11 attacks on the WTO so changed your world.
Their attacks had already changed the world for most other nations.
Quote:
... all I see when I go there is talk of war with Russia, war with Iran, people bashing the Iraq war.
This has been the situation for decades. We have not seen a truly peaceful era in my lifetime. And nowhere do I see evidence of things cooling down anywhere.
Quote:
... The thought, the idea of sending these boys that I know and love to potentially die at some politician's whim tears at my heart. Nothing makes 9/11 more real than actually knowing the soldiers and sailors that will risk their lives for the will of their country. I hear people blaming the politicians that voted for the war...and dont get me wrong...politicians are rotten. But they couldn't have gone to war if America's people at the time hadnt been demanding blood. You cant tell me our people dont have a voice in what those politicians do.
There really is an effort to try and stop the violence.
Our nation has gotten into the mindset of being the World's police.
I enforced US law on foreign soil. We have like 130 bases scattered around the planet on foreign soil, and we operate some level of legal jurisdiction in each of those nations.
It is usually more than a "politician's whim" that ends up sending troops.
The thought that if we can stop violence in that one place, maybe it won't spread. Maybe we can save lives.
I do not like being the World's Police force. I think that we should return to within our borders, and we should mostly shut down our borders. To stop letting so many felons and terrorists inside our nation. But my voice is not heard.
Quote:
...
Ive always got this kind of dread in the back of my mind that every time I see one of these boys on leave or something, that it just might be the last time. I dont want to make the impression that I am a "dove" as my father calls it. If someone does something severe enough, Im all for fighting. But what I dont understand is when the threat ( or even veiled threat) of war is tossed around as carelessly as a shoe thats been worn too long.
I understand.
Nobody hates war as much as a combat vet.
Quote:
... Do any of ya'll ever feel any of these things, or am I being an overly sentimental and worrying female?? Im sorry this thread is long...but I just kinda wanted to get this out there and see other's take on it.
Your good. You are the person that you are supposed to be.
I am getting rep points for that post, which caused me to come back and review it.
I would like to say that I do understand the reasoning behind the attacks
Everyone should understand their reasoning. It is not difficult to understand, and it has all been published many times.
To place the attacks in your consciousness in it's proper context, you must realize that the attacks have been to serve a purpose.
One religion includes doctrines like:
1. "true believers should conquer the world and slay all who oppose them"
2. Or "infidels who submit to you, can be allowed to serve you if they pay a tax"
3. Or "dying while killing infidels is a guaranteed ticket to heaven, and all infidels you kill will serve you in heaven"
The Ottoman Empire lives on in those teachings, and it has been spreading. They are fiercely against Israel. They are against Christians, and only slightly against everyone else.
Our culture is rooted in Judeo-Christianity. Everything we do is based on, or developed from some Judeo-Christian ideal.
Individually we do not need to be born-again believers, we still embrace those ideas.
1. The idea of women being citizens with rights to their own bodies.
2. That all humans have rights. That I was not born into a class structure, and will be held within my class for all eternity. In our culture, a person could have once been a slave, and yet one day become a great leader.
3. That all should be freely allowed to choose their own religion.
Our TV media insults many cultures. It insults our more conservative Christians [the violence, the sex, the drugs, the porn, etc].
Our multi-national corporations have been pumping Babe-watch and Love-Boat on the airwaves in all nations around the world. We have brought nearly naked women into the homes of deeply religious cultures. That insults and offends them terribly.
It is not our nation. It is not our government, that does this. Rather our greedy corporations. It is Capitalism!
I was living in Italy with my family, while I was doing LEO duties. In Naples Italy there are five McDonalds restaurants. Each is owned by Italians. Every month or so, in the international news, Americans would do some terrible injustice to someone somewhere. The Italians would stage protests, and would commonly firebomb a McDonalds. I would come into work, and one of the LNs [Local Nationals] that worked for me would ask what I thought of it. She would ask me if America had learned a lesson. I never knew what she was talking about, but after catching up on the local news, I would see that they had destroyed a restaurant [again], killed five Italian employees and a dozen customers. To those LNs a McDonalds is a symbol of America, so they were striking out against the injustices. But no Americans were harmed, only Italians would be killed. And McDonald's is a big corporation, within a week fresh pain, new windows and upholstery, new employees and they would be serving burgers again. While I lived in Italy, I saw all 5 of those McD's destroyed one after another, and each was re-opened for business within 2 weeks.
Our culture is admired, and yet it deeply insults other cultures. In the case of Italy, those people are not that much different from Americans. Italians are not Muslim, 99% are Catholic.
I am not defending the Muslim attacks against the World Trade organization. It was all symbolic.
Buildings that were called 'World Trade' were symbols for their namesake.
The pan-Am Building likewise.
The pentagon is a symbol of the military power that defends the WTO.
The White House is a symbol the 'head of the serpent' [in their imagery].
The date of the attack was also a very good symbol, though it's symbology is lost on the Western culture.
There is a growing religion that truly hates the Judeo-Christian culture. Within their teachings they reward all who give their lives to killing infidels.
They do not want to win over hearts and minds. They want personal servants in heaven.
Our existence offends them, and threatens them.
As we have seen. Within peace loving mosques worldwide the extreme doctrines have been spreading around the world. In peaceful British mosques, British citizens have been converted into Islamic terrorists. Canadians have been converted. Americans have been converted.
This is not a war that is going to end soon, nor quietly.
Our TV media insults many cultures. It insults our more conservative Christians [the violence, the sex, the drugs, the porn, etc].
Our multi-national corporations have been pumping Babe-watch and Love-Boat on the airwaves in all nations around the world. We have brought nearly naked women into the homes of deeply religious cultures. That insults and offends them terribly.
It is not our nation. It is not our government, that does this. Rather our greedy corporations. It is Capitalism!
I was thinking here is a voice of reason until I read this paragraph. Why do you assume that only conservative Christians are offended by violence, sex, drugs, and porn?
It is my understanding that those countries who import programs of no redeeming value do so of their own volition. I am unaware that there are any treaties or other international accords which require them to do so.
Many of 'our' greedy corporations are actually owned by foreign concerns. Do you have any idea the number of companies sold to outside interests back in the 80's by individuals looking for their golden parachute.
Never thought this liberal Christian would ever be caught quoting Nancy Regan, but it seems to me that if they are so offended, then they can just say NO. They don't need to import anything that goes against their culture. Why don't they do the American thing and get out there and boycott those TV stations, those clothing stores, those newstands for bringing that smut into their country? If protecting their culture is what this is truely all about, that would send a much stronger message to their leaders for allowing such things than blaming the U.S. Why I bet we could even send them some of our TV censorship activists to show them how to do it.
I was thinking here is a voice of reason until I read this paragraph. Why do you assume that only conservative Christians are offended by violence, sex, drugs, and porn?
I meant to only be giving them as an example.
An example of the various groups who are offended by it.
Quote:
It is my understanding that those countries who import programs of no redeeming value do so of their own volition. I am unaware that there are any treaties or other international accords which require them to do so.
In some cases there is Federal funding.
In some cases the broadcasting stations are placed outside of their borders. We have long transmitted radio and TV from neutral countries to provide programming [and propaganda] to other countries. Islamic broadcasters do the same thing.
In other cases, it is corporate structure.
Like in the case of McDonalds. Fred a private person gets to know about franchises and talks bob into financing a franchise. The franchise is only concerned about profits, a few politicos get paid off and they setup Fred with a restaurant. Fred hires locals who only want jobs. Fred is an entrepreneur, Bob is a creditor, politicians are crooked and McDonalds is an international corporation. Each plays his role.
Quote:
Many of 'our' greedy corporations are actually owned by foreign concerns. Do you have any idea the number of companies sold to outside interests back in the 80's by individuals looking for their golden parachute.
True.
It has become very International.
Corporations owned by folks everywhere, are going everywhere.
Quote:
Never thought this liberal Christian would ever be caught quoting Nancy Regan, but it seems to me that if they are so offended, then they can just say NO. They don't need to import anything that goes against their culture. Why don't they do the American thing and get out there and boycott those TV stations, those clothing stores, those newstands for bringing that smut into their country? If protecting their culture is what this is truely all about, that would send a much stronger message to their leaders for allowing such things than blaming the U.S. Why I bet we could even send them some of our TV censorship activists to show them how to do it.
From time to time, business owners, college professors, and politicians all get drug out into the streets and they are killed.
Thank you very much for your response Beekeeper. After I posted this, I think I should have put it in a blog instead...but too late now. lol
I worry alot about my boyfriend and friends, if you want the honest truth. 9/11's anniversay just kind of made me think about it more than usual, and it seeped through my fingers and onto a thread ( darn those fingers! )
My uncle fought in Vietnam....he wont talk about it much, but I know enough to know it was hell.
Thank you for your service,sir.
Your post did not sound harsh. I appreciate the blunt truth much more than when it is sugar-coated.
Thank you very much for your response Beekeeper. After I posted this, I think I should have put it in a blog instead...but too late now. lol
Thank you for starting this thread.
Much better to see it out here, and to get it discussed more.
I think.
Quote:
...
I worry alot about my boyfriend and friends, if you want the honest truth. 9/11's anniversay just kind of made me think about it more than usual, and it seeped through my fingers and onto a thread ( darn those fingers! )
That is what anniversaies do, they make us think about events.
To review and assess ourselves and our place in relation to the events.
Quote:
...
My uncle fought in Vietnam....he wont talk about it much, but I know enough to know it was hell.
Thank you for your service,sir.
Your post did not sound harsh. I appreciate the blunt truth much more than when it is sugar-coated.
Is your uncle a member of the VFW? If he is, call the post and ask about their social calendar. My post had a meat raffle tonight. Sometimes they do bingo, or other things. Whatever their next social event is, ask your uncle to take you to it.
It may help him, and it may help you.
I think that most vets will never talk about 'it', but it is nice sometimes to socialize around other vets, to offer asistance to each other.
Since your BF is currently in combat, he will need the services of the VFW when he returns. Many vets never seek it, many never realize that they should seek help. Often 'help' might be nothing more than having a beer with other vets, or making phone calls to the VA.
If either of these guys [your uncle or your BF] has hidden issues with PTSD, you are all better off, if they are socializing with fellow vets to spot it and offer assistance.
Much better to see it out here, and to get it discussed more.
I think.
That is what anniversaies do, they make us think about events.
To review and assess ourselves and our place in relation to the events.
Is your uncle a member of the VFW? If he is, call the post and ask about their social calendar. My post had a meat raffle tonight. Sometimes they do bingo, or other things. Whatever their next social event is, ask your uncle to take you to it.
It may help him, and it may help you.
I think that most vets will never talk about 'it', but it is nice sometimes to socialize around other vets, to offer asistance to each other.
Since your BF is currently in combat, he will need the services of the VFW when he returns. Many vets never seek it, many never realize that they should seek help. Often 'help' might be nothing more than having a beer with other vets, or making phone calls to the VA.
If either of these guys [your uncle or your BF] has hidden issues with PTSD, you are all better off, if they are socializing with fellow vets to spot it and offer assistance.
May God bless you
My boyfriend..he isnt in combat..yet.
Im sorry...my post does give that impression. I apologize.
He is in the last stages of training to become a Navy Nuke ( He'll "play" with the reactors aboard ship). However, his training is finished in late December and his 1st deployment will be in January. Politics as they are, I worry alot as to what he will be sent into and who might be shooting at him/his ship.
The other boys I know are either in combat, are home resting to be returned to combat soon, or are scheduled soon for sea duty.
I dont know if my uncle is a VFW member...Ive never thought to ask him actually. I do know he is still in contact with some of his old friends that fought with him in Vietnam.
He's now a retired policeman...and seems as balanced as my uncle gets... (youd have to know him to know what I mean...lol)
My boyfriend..he isnt in combat..yet.
Im sorry...my post does give that impression. I apologize.
He is in the last stages of training to become a Navy Nuke ( He'll "play" with the reactors aboard ship). However, his training is finished in late December and his 1st deployment will be in January. Politics as they are, I worry alot as to what he will be sent into and who might be shooting at him/his ship.
The other boys I know are either in combat, are home resting to be returned to combat soon, or are scheduled soon for sea duty.
I dont know if my uncle is a VFW member...Ive never thought to ask him actually. I do know he is still in contact with some of his old friends that fought with him in Vietnam. He's now a retired policeman...and seems as balanced as my uncle gets... (youd have to know him to know what I mean...lol)
Having been a submariner I knew a lot of nucs. They are pretty compartmentalized. You should really encourage him to go subs. It is better pay, much more helpful in terms of possible family life, and being able to invest.
Also nucs have a really good guaranteed future profession laid out for them.
They really do 'play' with reactors. It is the only place where a person can become trained and experienced operating a reactor. A highly valued skill set which civilian utility companies want.
Having been a submariner I knew a lot of nucs. They are pretty compartmentalized. You should really encourage him to go subs. It is better pay, much more helpful in terms of possible family life, and being able to invest.
Also nucs have a really good guaranteed future profession laid out for them.
They really do 'play' with reactors. It is the only place where a person can become trained and experienced operating a reactor. A highly valued skill set which civilian utility companies want.
The last part of his training now is on a moored sub...and he HATES that sub,working on it, and being so cramped up. He calls it the metal ******* hole, among other things that arent fit to be printed. Heh, needless to say, his answer to subs is no.
I privately wanted him to do carriers...simply because I do not like the idea of him underwater that way with no way out.Also ( and this is me personally..no reflection of him) I really dont care if he makes alot of money. Thats not why Im with him.Ive been with him since before he joined ( he was working in fast food)...I liked him poor just as well as I do now.
However...he didnt find out my preference until after he declared himself as going carrier. It was his decision.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
)
, among other things that arent fit to be printed. Heh, needless to say, his answer to subs is no.
