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If openly gay men can go through the same bootcamp, share the same toilets , share th same showers as straight men--------we might as well allow males and females to do the same.
I was drafted ( served my 2 years honorably) my son served 20 years and is drawing military retirement while attending college.
If the "new" military is the "pc" military that Crew Chief desires, I will not encourage my grandkids to consider enlisting and will try to discourage them to do so !!!!!!!!
Marmac, it's NOT about political correctness, it's about getting the most qualified Americans that we can find to serve our great nation. Actually, I have no idea whether I've shared ccommunity showers with gay men or not. Never worried about it. Sharing community showers with the opposite sex is NOT the same thing as serving abord a ship with them. Maybe one of these days the antiquated attitudes people have will go away...
Marmac, it's NOT about political correctness, it's about getting the most qualified Americans that we can find to serve our great nation. Actually, I have no idea whether I've shared ccommunity showers with gay men or not. Never worried about it. Sharing community showers with the opposite sex is NOT the same thing as serving abord a ship with them. Maybe one of these days the antiquated attitudes people have will go away...
--"Sharing community showers with the opposite sex is NOT the same thing as serving aboard a ship with them"---
It was you who climbed aboard your "pc" soapbox and entered gays into the discussion .
Women have been on Australian submarines for about 10 years. The problem seems to be the Swedish diesel engines, they keep breaking down...
Looks like the RAN is going to need more of those Women? Especially, If they're expected to fully crew the 12 new Subs, that are set to replace the troubled Collins Class vessels.
Women want to join the military. Once they join, they can, and are, sent into combat. If they join they're the same as the men. They should be assigned to the same MOS's and everything the men are. If they step out of the shower "almost out of uniform" as lisdol quoted, and are seen by some of the men, that's just a risk they'll have to take.
If openly gay men can go through the same bootcamp, share the same toilets ,
I am trying to recall a time, but I simply do not recall ...
In American culture a toilet is usually found within a booth with a door.
One person goes into said booth and uses that toilet, and he / she is not sharing the toilet with any one else.
Then he / she flushes the toilet and leaves the booth.
I have been in other cultures where there were no doors and the walls between toilets were only 3 or 4 foot tall. So as you sat on your private toilet, if you sat back you could discuss the weather with the people who sat on toilets to your left or right. But that was outside of the USA.
We 'share' toilets in the context that one or ten toilets may be available to a large group of people. However usually only one person is on any given toilet at a time. And when doing so they are inside of a booth with the door shut.
Quote:
... share the same showers as straight men ...
The only time that I have been in a communal shower was:
1- bootcamp;
2- YMCA gym locker rooms;
3- I think the Navy base gym at Naples Italy had a communal shower room.
Otherwise each time I have been in a BEQ each wing had a head, and in those heads were a row of shower stalls. Where you entered into a stall and pulled a curtain shut behind you. There was no communal sharing of shower heads.
Each sub I have lived onboard has had private shower stalls each with a stainless steel door.
There is far more privacy allowed on a sub then at bootcamp, or in a civilian gym.
Quote:
... we might as well allow males and females to do the same. ...
Well yes, I suppose. In either case, you would never 'see' an other person sitting on a toilet, nor taking a shower.
I do not see where the idea would come from that a bunch of people stand together in a communal shower and soap each other up.
Porn movies? maybe?
Quote:
... I was drafted ( served my 2 years honorably) my son served 20 years and is drawing military retirement while attending college.
Yes you mentioned that before. Hey did you ever ask him about his SRB levels?
You said once that you would.
Quote:
... If the "new" military is the "pc" military that Crew Chief desires, I will not encourage my grandkids to consider enlisting and will try to discourage them to do so !!!!!!!!
Looks like the RAN is going to need more of those Women? Especially, If they're expected to fully crew the 12 new Subs, that are set to replace the troubled Collins Class vessels.
Since we are having trouble manning two subs, perhaps we can women some?
Well, for one dedicated lavatories for women, which meant that instead of 2 accessible heads for men to use, there was only 1. That means 4 toilets for potentially 40 men. Not wonderful.
Displaced Junior Officers, since women must have their own separate living quarters, JO's were displaced into Aft Berthing and forced E-5's into hotracking again.
Submarine culture is that of a fraternity, and often times it turns into a frat-house. We have unique ways of making the time pass during 30-60 day stints where we are on communication lockdown due to being in an area we shouldn't be. I'm not sure how Females would play into that? There is definitely some very crude behavior and jokes that go on.
-----
I guess it might be different if correct planning was done from the get go, but people need to understand that the Submarine designs, were made for a male-only force. That's why the lavatories are designed in the middle of two berthing units, even on the Virginia class submarines.
To me it is all in you. Excuses were given how come blacks should not be allowed with whites in the services, the same about gays in the military.
The get go did not just start. The get go started when submarines were first in use and at that time the mentality was less open minded in many ways. Now it has changed in it seems you and many others are the ones having a hard time adjusting.
You have a great day.
El Amigo
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