What comes to mind when you think of Milwaukee? (Madison: sales, professionals)

[Chief Woowoo]

Dncr,

why do you think there is a 'shadow' of New York/Chicago over Philidelphia/ Milwaukee? Did some empty sweater Cubs fan tell you that on some message board?
How far does this 'shadow' reach in your imagination? Why do you call it a 'shadow'? Are you referring to sphere of influence? That is something that actually exists. Could I say that Wisconsin casts a shadow over Chicagoland? Perhaps the Packers having just a bit more success through the years has cast a stormcloud over Illinois? (Oooooo)-: There is certainly alot of Wisconsin influence in Chicagoland as well. How about Wisconsin casts a spell over Chicago? That seems pretty accurate. Just explain to me, with your infinite wisdom of 18 years, what you are talking about. Intelligently.

[Dncr]

Originally Posted by Chief Woowoo

Dncr,

why do you think there is a shadow of New York/Chicago over Philidelphia/ Milwaukee? How far does this shadow reach in your imagination? Why do you call it a shadow? There ain't much sunlight in Chicago so it must only happen certain summer days. Are you referring to sphere of influence? That is something that actually exists. Could I say that Wisconsin casts a shadow over Chicagoland? There is certainly a ton of Wisconsin influence in Chicagoland as well. How about Wisconsin casts a spell over Chicago? That seems accurate.

That makes perfect sense. I applaud your intellect. You are deserving of a noble peace prize. COOKIES FOR WOOWOO!!!!

[Chief Woowoo]

Originally Posted by Dncr

You are deserving of a noble peace prize.

It's NOBEL peace prize. I applaud your intellect. At least somebody is deserving.

[Milwaukee City]

Originally Posted by Chief Woowoo

why do you think there is a 'shadow' of New York/Chicago over Philidelphia/ Milwaukee?

...because people in these respective cities complain about it and it is well known. Such as Bmore is in the shadow of DC, Philly is in the shadow of NYC but not to the extent of Milwaukee-Chicago.

[Chief Woowoo]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

...because people in these respective cities complain about it and it is well known. Such as Bmore is in the shadow of DC, Philly is in the shadow of NYC but not to the extent of Milwaukee-Chicago.

Well known? The only place I find it on Google is in this forum! Also this is the first time I've ever heard of it, and asking the wife just now about the big shadow, she laughed.
So because a couple people in these cities are insecure enough to whine that they are in some cold dark imaginary shadow, I have to endure 12 more posts from an 18 year old kid from a city with an inferiority complex about New York and L.A. ? I think that one is much better documented.

You mean sphere of influence.

[gentlearts]

Beer, lovely lake front, Art Museum.

[Dncr]

Originally Posted by Chief Woowoo

It's NOBEL peace prize. I applaud your intellect. At least somebody is deserving.

It was a typo. Make them everyday! Thanks! I'm honored you applaud my intelligence .

Originally Posted by Chief Woowoo

Well known? The only place I find it on Google is in this forum! Also this is the first time I've ever heard of it, and asking the wife just now about the big shadow, she laughed.

It's great that your wife laughed. I don't get what that brings to your argument. Can her laughs determine if something is true or not? If so, I suggest you call someone about that! You could make it BIG, maybe even big enough to climb out of that shadow you've been living in....Kidding, again haha

Originally Posted by Chief Woowoo

So because a couple people in these cities are insecure enough to whine that they are in some cold dark imaginary shadow, I have to endure 12 more posts from an 18 year old kid from a city with an inferiority complex about New York and L.A.?

LOL! Oh my...if anyone has "inferiority complex" here, its you. Chicago doesn't live under anyone's shadow. The city may have some aspects similar to New York, which is only natural, but Chicago lives free from New York's shadow. I assure you, no one here besides you suffers from "inferiority complex."

Originally Posted by Chief Woowoo

I think that one is much better documented.

Nothing you say is well documented. Oh, and way to try and use my age against me...I'm providing a better argument than you! LOL!

Originally Posted by Chief Woowoo

You mean sphere of influence.

No, I mean shadow...like the one you're living in .

Once again, kidding.

[Tao111]

The shadow cast by Chicago is of your perspective. When one keeps their face to the sun, there are no shadows.

[Igor and sven]

Originally Posted by Dncr

You could make it BIG, maybe even big enough to climb out of that shadow you've been living in....Kidding, again haha
No, I mean shadow...like the one you're living in .
Once again, kidding.

Well in a healthy relationship, you support each other...and Chicago and Milwaukee could both use a healthy relationship, no?
That means Chicagoans should support Milwaukee and Milwaukeeans should support Chicago. I don't see where all this talk about a gloomy shadow over Milwaukee is constructive or supportive.

Most Milwaukeeans I know are strong minded and really hold no jealousy or animosity toward Chicago. I think most of the city of Milwaukee was rooting for Chicago to get the Olympics for example because it may have been a positive for both places, depending on your view. We are very comfortable about the assets of our own city. We realize Chicago has the spotlight and we realize the importance of it doing well, and we are OK with it. The true cause of any feelings of animosity is when people throw a blanket, or a shadow in this case, over everyone in either place and label them. The Milwaukee I know has put the frustrations behind them for the most part and are now blazing their own trail. It's OK that Chicago is bigger and in the national light. Being able to sincerely celebrate Chicago's success will ultimately bring Milwaukee and Chicago closer together and that's very good for both towns. No more talk of shadows.

[Empidonax]

I'll probably regret jumping into this, but....

What does all of this talk of "overshadowing" mean? Is it when one city partly or wholly eclipses another in terms of economic power? Traffic patterns? Market reach? Cultural offerings? All of these combined? Or are you just talking about peoples' general perceptions, regardless of realities? Or everything wrapped into one?

When I was growing up on the west coast, Philadelphia and NYC always seemed to me to be quite independent of each other in all respects. Later, when I moved to central New Jersey (exactly halfway between Phillie and NYC), the area where I lived seemed more attuned (economically and culturally) to NYC than to Phillie, even though the area (Mercer County) was officially in the Philadelphia metro area. In the past 15 years, Mercer County has become a part of the NYC metro area, so perhaps that's a sign that NYC has some kind of draw at the expense of Phillie. (Metro areas are determined primarily on the basis of commuter data.)

However, while a resident of central NJ, I also realized that Philadelphia held its own sphere of influence quite nicely; if it lost some kind of influence in Central New Jersey to NYC, it widened its sphere of influence in the north 'burbs, the west 'burbs and south into Delaware. So, NYC may have been encroaching on Phillie's space, but Phillie in turn has expanded its role in Wilmington and other areas south.

It's possible that the "Wall Street economic trail" and "Manhattan cultural exceptionalism" would have NYC towering over Phillie, but Phillie still has a strong identity in economics and culture. The city's economic elite (the blue bloods of the Main Line) still have a great presence; the significant sprawl to the west and south shows significant dependence on the city; the cultural institutions and history carve out a separate space for Phillie in the public imagination; and so on. Of the two cities/metros, NYC is the more sprawling and fundamental, so in that sense it "overshadows" Phillie in the way that Los Angeles overshadows San Diego: a little, but not much.

Chicago and Milwaukee are quite different. Chicago's cultural and economic power is felt more in Mke than NYC's is felt in Phillie. Chicago and Milwaukee have been direct economic competitors (via the railroad and Lake Michigan) for well over a century; NYC and Phillie, on the other hand, have developed along separate waterways and transportation routes. However, in spite of Chicago's greater presence in Milwaukee's public/economic space than NYC's presence in Phillie's, Milwaukee also has a strong, separate identity fueled by things specific to Milwaukee (its history, ethnicities, industries, etc.) and fueled by external concerns that are unique to it, such as Milwaukee's role in Wisconsin and its function with regard to Madison, Sheboygan, Green Bay, etc.

While growing up on the west coast, I always perceived Milwaukee as fundamentally separate from Chicago. I would bet that most people who can even locate Milwaukee and Chicago on a map would suppose the same (most people don't fret about such rivalries). However, it cannot be denied that Chicago has an economic and cultural presence in Milwaukee. But I think it would be stretching things to say, flatly, that the one overshadows the other. If anything, Chicago is more visible in Milwaukee's cultural space and money trail than vice-versa, but I don't think that's synonymous with "overshadowing."

But that's how I perceive it, and I think it really just comes down to perception anyway. Does the U.S. overshadow Canada, or does it just cut into its space? Same kind of question, two different concepts.