Would You Favor Tolls On Milwaukee Area Freeways (West Allis, Cudahy: live, move to)

[Angorlee]

i heard it said a long time ago that all freeways everywhere will be tolls. Maybe it has to be that way but there is so much corruption as in the Chicago toll roads where people are always caught skimming money out of the toll tanks.

[zz4guy]

Wow. Wow! More taxes are the answer I guess. No wonder you guys have record setting property tax rates and chase business away with your tax policies. YOu openly welcome fees and salex tax hikes!!! Wake up!!

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by zz4guy

Wow. Wow! More taxes are the answer I guess. No wonder you guys have record setting property tax rates and chase business away with your tax policies. YOu openly welcome fees and salex tax hikes!!! Wake up!!

You're from Iowa, huh?

Iowa passed a vehicle license tax, did it not? All vehicles titled after January 1, 2009 (coming right up... register a new car before then or pay more) will cost a minimum of $50 or more, depending on the formula calculated. A 3000lb vehicle worth $20k registered in Iowa, will cost $200 to register. Since the formula is based on weight, imagine a 6000lb $80k SUV. Own a trailer of some sort?

The same vehicle registered in Wisconsin costs $75, $95 if registered in Milwaukee or a couple of other areas.


So OK.. if we're talking about taxes and fees...

WI has a state sales tax of 5%. Iowa? 6%.

Now, let's go back to tolls.

Like Iowa, Wisconsin--instead of putting through property tax hikes or sales tax hikes--will simply nickel and dime residents to death wherever possible. Iowa seems to have done a good job of that already. The reason I favor tolls is because the burden gets shared with residents, nonresidents, commercial out of state traffic, or whoever uses the road.

Unfortunately, Wisconsinites IMO, have not been swift enough to figure this out, and assume that no tolls will simply mean that the money does not come from somewhere. Instead, Wisconsin will continue to empty residents' pockets in the form of DMV counter fees, wheel taxes (a BS tax by the way), street lamp fees, or who-knows-what state and local governments will invent.

I maintain that a fee shared with everyone including tourists, out of state travelers, residents, and commercial traffic, instead of a fee placed exclusively on residents, is much better than simply expecting residents to foot 100% of whatever bill the state is trying to pay. Nobody will bat an eyelash because anyone who crosses the state line, pays tolls every time. So what's the difference? People won't stop vacationing or shopping or traveling because of it. Unfortunately, Wisconsin--true to form--believes that anything that works for Illinois, doesn't work for Wisconsin. So it probably won't happen. Wisconsin loves to innovate, but sometimes it's better to just use something that it tried and true. This, IMO, is one of those things that is tried and true.

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by zz4guy

Wow. Wow! More taxes are the answer I guess. No wonder you guys have record setting property tax rates and chase business away with your tax policies. YOu openly welcome fees and salex tax hikes!!! Wake up!!

Like businesses are flocking to Iowa right? Iowa is one of a handful of states that's population is actually declining. It's a phenomenon known as "rural flight" and states like Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, and North Dakota are losing residents to other regions of the country (especially the Twin Cities and Denver).

[zz4guy]

I wasn't trying to say that Iowas tax system is superior to Wisconsins.

You're right about Iowa - we are losing population, young graduates, and we scare away business with our highest in the nation 12% corporate tax rate and disproportionate commercial property taxes. We'd rather throw money at schools and farmers. This state is ass-backwards; don't follow our lead.

All I'm saying is that Milwaukee, along with the rest of the midewest, has high taxes all around and is losing business and jobs. Why give people another reason to look elsewhere??

[Iburytheliving]

Originally Posted by MILWCITY

If Tolls were to be added in the 7 county area would you favor this Idea?

Would they be used in lieu of a current type of taxing or would they be a new addition? Would revenue from the tolls strictly go to the transportation infrastructure? I pay attention to politics, but am still relatively young (27) and don't know exactly what pays for what.

thanks

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by 43north87west

Like Iowa, Wisconsin--instead of putting through property tax hikes or sales tax hikes--will simply nickel and dime residents to death wherever possible. Iowa seems to have done a good job of that already. The reason I favor tolls is because the burden gets shared with residents, nonresidents, commercial out of state traffic, or whoever uses the road.

See, 43-87, I would tend to agree with your reasoning and logic if I had a morsel of confidence whatsoever that property / sales taxes, etc., then would be held course. EG: That local government would actually run itself with fiscal restraint and use the monies from a tollway to offset taxes elsewhere.

Call me an incredible skeptic.

I am about 103.2% certain that the toll money would just increase the total size of the tax pot going to government (be in addition to readily increasing sales/property taxes), rather than offset to alleviate the burden for residents.

Chicagoland is home of the tolls galore and its sales tax just hit north of 10%. Affluence like that obviously can sustain something like that in Chicago...up here, taxation galore like that just continues to drive people away.

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

See, 43-87, I would tend to agree with your reasoning and logic if I had a morsel of confidence whatsoever that property / sales taxes, etc., then would be held course. EG: That local government would actually run itself with fiscal restraint and use the monies from a tollway to offset taxes elsewhere.

Call me an incredible skeptic.

I am about 103.2% certain that the toll money would just increase the total size of the tax pot going to government (be in addition to readily increasing sales/property taxes), rather than offset to alleviate the burden for residents.

Chicagoland is home of the tolls galore and its sales tax just hit north of 10%. Affluence like that obviously can sustain something like that in Chicago...up here, taxation galore like that just continues to drive people away.

Oh, I agree. But I'm looking at the whole picture. Instead of overt taxes like property tax and sales tax, Wisconsin and municipalities are passing covert taxes. Call them nickel-and-dime fees. It's nothing new, and it's not going to change. The nickel and dimes are easier to grease through, using whatever financial crisis needs to be averted at a given time. The "wheel tax" is a perfect example, strictly focused on penalizing residents of specific areas. It's nothing but a property tax under a different name. But it's worse, charging people with a $100 car the same as a person with a $100,000 car. Instead of passing a realistic ad valorem tax (which would have been lengthy and miserable, and I would not particularly like, but would work very well) a quickie nickel-and-dime fee was tossed into the mix to solve an immediate problem. Next year, look forward to more of the same little fees creeping in. Instead of a property tax hike, there will be a sidewalk fee, or a fire hydrant fee, or a tree maintenance charge. Assessment won't go up, but the bills, will. It all goes along with increased infrastructure and high social loads placed on older cities.

No matter how you cut it, the whole tax burden is never going to go down. Never. One tax may be relaxed, but other taxes or user fees are going to be created elsewhere to fill the hole. Maybe property tax assessments will go down. Suddenly, another fee will be raised to compensate. Blame scapegoat of choice here; there are many. And although I'd like to think that this area isn't affluent enough to support it, the area supports other costs just fine. A tollway wouldn't harm anyone who drove a car during $4/gallon fuel prices, and could probably be leveraged for better mass transit options, spreading revenue into something that is worthwhile. A tollway wouldn't kill interstate commerce, it wouldn't ruin the state, and it wouldn't cause people to stay home--except for people who weren't heading out to spend money in the first place. It would spread the cost farther than a simple tax or fee. It would charge heavy users more, but would not charge non-users anything.

For once, I'd like to see some of the load shared with passers by, not just residents.

Finally, until Wisconsin opens its arms to businesses that it seemingly doesn't want, and tourists it resents, the cost of living for residents, is going to continue to increase until people begin to vote with their feet. That would simply increase tax burdens on people who remain. I'm not saying that Wisconsin is doomed, I'm just saying that until large scale, large income business is recruited and kept, money is going to be emptied from pockets that have already been turned inside out. I'd like to see everyone involved, not just people who stay. The benefit is, the neighboring state of Illinois already has tolls, and extending that system would--in my opinion--be a natural progression of income producing road.

[mrkool]

Originally Posted by MILWCITY

This is the biggest stereotype I have to fight when I go down to Chicago, I wish cudahy would just fall off the map. Their ruining our rep. up here and stallis isnt helping much either.
.

Another Milwaukee elitist bashing Cudahy and West Allis. This is getting old. Give me an effing break.
Where you live (Walker's Point) is nothing to crow about unless you like the gay scene or the Latino scene.
So which is it?

[Milwaukee City]

Another Milwaukee elitist bashing Cudahy and West Allis. This is getting old. Give me an effing break.
Where you live (Walker's Point) is nothing to crow about unless you like the gay scene or the Latino scene.
So which is it?

Did I give Cudahy its reputation...NO, what about the stereo type that West Allis is full of mullets and white trash...NO

The people from their own communities gave themselves that rep, if they want to change that then how 'bout doing something about it. It also doesn't help when I meet people from Cudahy and they bash their own town and the same for "Stallis". As far a being an elitist, polish and living on Milwaukee's south side in Walker's Point doesn't seem elite to me but if I'm in a elite class then so be it, I'd rather be looked up to than looked down upon and only the people or town can change that.

unless you like the gay scene or the Latino scene.

Sorry to disappoint you but I actually disagree with the gay movement due to my faith beliefs however doesn't mean we can't live amongst each other. Milwaukee's gay scene isn't like SF where every other person is gay. 7 gay bars and 18 straight bars doesn't really constitute a gay scene and majority of the Latinos live on the west side of the freeway and none of my neighbors are Mexican so there goes the Latin scene, more white people go to La Perla, Conejitos, Botanas, La Fuente's than Mexicans anyways, have you seen La Perla on a Friday night its like Brookfield East in there.

I guess it sucks living by the top 5 Mexican restaurants in the state and only .5 miles from downtown for half the price of an East side condo, Great Lakes Distillery is also located here so I guess we have a vodka/gin scene also. Whats wrong with living by Latins anyways???