Milwaukee's negative population growth... any thoughts? (Greenfield: apartments, city hall, condos)

[ShowYouChicago]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping for some feedback on why you all think Milwaukee is showing a negative population growth.

I'm sure it is a lot of things but was curious for your input. For example: loss of jobs, crime, weather etc...

[Milwaukee City]

Actually with all the condo's going up in the central city and suburban growth Milwaukee's population for the first time in a while experienced an up tick in population now at 605,000 and 2,000,000 metro and Milwaukee County at 945,000. All the suburbs have always experienced growth but more and more people are moving downtown again.

Crime is way down in the city due to our new police chef from Mass.

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Home you can search for articles here or look up past post in this thread that has the links.

Weather in Milwaukee is what would say better than the rest of the state due to the "lake effect". In summer it's always cooler near the lake and in the winter it's warmer by the lake. So summer lasts a little longer next to lake Michigan and spring runs a little longer next to the lake as well. Now the difference in weather between the far suburbs and next to the lake can be 20 degrees warmer or colder depending which season you're in. Take for instance it was pouring one day at my house and 4 miles west it was 8inches of snow. However every so often we will get "lake effect" snow when the wind comes from over the lake and drops a ton of snow. This lake effect snow is a common thing on Michigan's western shore.

Milwaukee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Neighborhoods of Milwaukee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[KC3700]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

Actually with all the condo's going up in the central city

That's news to me.

I'm not seeing condos going up in the central city at all, unless you mean the ones at 33rd & North (those are actually regular apartments.

I'm actually seeing the opposite in the central city, a lot of stuff getting boarded up or even just getting torn down. There are some blocks in Milwaukee where there is nothing standing, just grass and weeds. There are even more blocks where one side has been completely torn down. You see this a lot on Center Street, around 20th and east.

I'd actually say that the downward economic and population trend in the central city is intensifying and spreading. City Hall has yet to respond to this.

Originally Posted by ShowYouChicago

I'm sure it is a lot of things but was curious for your input. For example: loss of jobs, crime, weather etc...

Well, it's complicated because Milwaukee has shown negative growth for some time now, but I would say that it's mainly economic. Weather doesn't make people leave, though it may prevent people from relocating here, and unless the city has a tremendous crime problem crime doesn't make people leave either.

I would say that it mainly has to do with

1) the demise of industry in Milwaukee, we haven't really replaced these jobs in a meaningful fashion.

2.) I would say that segregation has played a major role in the city's decline. It's never a good idea to systematically disenfranchise over 1/3 of a city's population, especially when all indicators point towards that population being the majority someday. Didn't work for Detroit in the 1960's and it isn't working for Milwaukee in the 2000's

3.) MPS. It sucks, no other way around it. Most of the teachers are good but the management is incompetent.

4.) Other public services are deteriorating. Most notably, our transit, which had 76 bus routes (including special routes) in 2001. It now has 56, constantly unreliable bus routes. This is supposed to get worse, as transit will be cut 35-37% from existing levels at the end of 2009 or in the first half of 2010. This deterioration isn't just confined to transit, however. It also is in the parks, city street maintanence, street lighting, and the fire department. Milwaukee is the only city in America to have reduced it's fire department after 9/11.

Ultimately, taxes aren't bad here, but people are NOT seeing a good return on their tax payments. People will leave if services stink.

5.) Urban decay. Milwaukee has a moderate urban decay problem, and the way that the city tries to tackle it (superficially) just doesn't work. This is a problem that feeds on itself, since urban decay causes people to leave, which in turn usually creates more urban decay. It's actually gotten pretty advanced in some parts of the North Side.

[Milwaukee City]

That's news to me.

I'm not seeing condos going up in the central city at all, unless you mean the ones at 33rd & North (those are actually regular apartments.

Central City isn't just 30th and Center and Metcalf Park. Downtown/east side/ Bayview/ Walker's Point, Brewers Hill, Beerline B, Water Street and all along the Milwaukee river.

I'm actually seeing the opposite in the central city, a lot of stuff getting boarded up or even just getting torn down.

Yes this true of the near north side but not the rest of the city, this hasn't hit the south side yet and by that I mean near south side IE 16th n Greenfield.

I would say that segregation has played a major role in the city's decline.

It's not 1990 anymore, what's this decline you are talking about? like I said in the near north side it's bad but it's getting worse. It hit bottom in 1995/1996. Their has been a lot of brand new home development around the area of 19th n Brown for instance.

Other public services are deteriorating. Most notably, our transit, which had 76 bus routes

I think and from an avid transit rider a lot of the buses being reduced or eliminated barely had any ridership.

It also is in the parks, city street maintanence, street lighting, and the fire department.

The only one that has really declined is street lighting which I admit and bothers me to no end is lack and burnt out street lights well this is b/c of Doyle raiding the transportation fund which his administration already admits to lack of lights and new lights being put in. Parks still look great to me every day when I bike through them.

Ultimately, taxes aren't bad here

You're not serious are you?

Urban decay. Milwaukee has a moderate urban decay problem

I'm not an apologist but this decay is only on the near north side and nowhere else is it seen in the city and I'm talking about real urban decay not just the dingy areas.

It's actually gotten pretty advanced in some parts of the North Side.

It's actually getting better, with a lot more development in the central city. IE new housing in the "hood".

I appreciate your info on Milwaukee and your point of view and it's not all wrong but compared to other big cities it's not even close to run down and all poor services. We will get into a debate on what the city can and should do for the North Side in another thread.

Well, it's complicated because Milwaukee has shown negative growth for some time now

Like I said early the suburbs have always been growing and will continue to grow and the city of Milwaukee actually showed growth for the first time in a long time.

[ShowYouChicago]

Well, I have to say I am very impressed by these replies to my thread. You all have taken a lot of time to give me very detailed information about Milwaukee and I really appreciate it. Making a big move in these times is not very easy and it helps to hear what the locals think. You've given me a lot to think about and I will certainly look around when I come in september.

[dfunk2funk]

Weather doesn't make people leave, though it may prevent people from relocating here, and unless the city has a tremendous crime problem crime doesn't make people leave either.

I moved to Atlanta just because of the weather. Couldn't stand the cold.

[Milwaukee City]

Originally Posted by dfunk2funk

Weather doesn't make people leave, though it may prevent people from relocating here, and unless the city has a tremendous crime problem crime doesn't make people leave either.

I moved to Atlanta just because of the weather. Couldn't stand the cold.

Actually the reason my wife and I are looking to relocate is only b/c of weather. I also would move if Milwaukee was another Detroit. People leave b/c of weather all the time, hence all the people from WI now living in PHX or FLA.

[TommyGavin]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

Yes this true of the near north side but not the rest of the city, this hasn't hit the south side yet and by that I mean near south side IE 16th n Greenfield.

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about specifically with this statement, but the area you describe is riding right down the toilet.
New board ups are a daily occurrence, as is gang related violence. The advantage to that area is that people are very quick to try and remove gang tags almost as quickly as it is put up.

The south side is fast catching up with the blight of the north side.

[EastSideMKE]

Population of the City of Milwaukee

2000: 596,974

2008: 604,477

[Allan Trafton]

Originally Posted by TommyGavin

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about specifically with this statement, but the area you describe is riding right down the toilet.
New board ups are a daily occurrence, as is gang related violence. The advantage to that area is that people are very quick to try and remove gang tags almost as quickly as it is put up.

The south side is fast catching up with the blight of the north side.

Graffiti is much worse on the south side compared to the north side. It's not even close. Board ups are worse on the north side. Around 75% of the cities total. The near south side would be next and followed by the northwest side. The board up problem on the near south is increasing though. The condition of the housing stock on the near south side is becoming a problem. People will live in homes on the near south that I wouldn't let an animal live in. Some are that bad.