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You know what's even more bother some, is I'm in sales so I am constantly talking to people and I deal with people in Chicago and in Oshkosh and more often than not I hear on how people have been to Chicago, New York, San Diego even and I still here them say "ah New York is such a crap hole" or "I would never live in Chicago, I don't want to get shot". I had a guy say to me once "how can you live in Milwaukee?" "don't you hear gunshots daily?"
Like I have stated earlier I attribute this to people who don't know anything about city living or expectations of living in a city. I also had a guy tell me he would never live on Prospect avenue with all those homeless people and riff raff.
Some people just aren't city people but judging something when you know nothing about it is what I like to call stupid and it's a lesson we all learned back in 2nd Grade. Don't judge a book by it's cover.
Concerning attitudes towards large eastern cities like New York, Chicago and Milwaukee. Many have been conditioned to dislike these types of cities and don't even know better. This is what they were taught when they were young and they take it as a given and give it little thought. Many in this mind set view a place such as Brookfield as what is considered nice and where high standards are set. To them the city is a place to escape from or use the amenities when need be. You and I don't agree with this, but there are millions who give this no critical thought. I believe the younger generations(35 & under) have made progress and look at the city in a much more positive light. I'm sure the younger generations have a much higher opinion of New York and Chicago then the over 45 crowd.
I'm sure the younger generations have a much higher opinion of New York and Chicago then the over 45 crowd.
Yeah, I would say that is a fair assumption. The younger crowd nowadays tends to be more into the whole nightlife urban living trend. I also think living downtown or urban living was always popular in cities like Chicago, LA and NYC but only up until recently in cities like Milwaukee and Cleveland has it really become popular. You now have a more transient population where kids nowadays are taking trips to NYC or SF to see the country before they go to college and also kids are more likely to go to college out of the state unlike the older generation where I have found not many of them have ever been anywhere. Plus you more TV show glamorizing the life in the big city and 20 somethings want to be a part of that.
Just look at Milwaukee, you have the new Beer line B neighborhood, Walker's Point, Third Ward, Bay View, Brewers Hill, Downtown all revitalized and more of a switch from the old corner tap bars to more lounges and upscale nightclubs that bring in celebs every weekend, plus you have more of a shift from mall shopping to boutique shopping in Milwaukee and fashion shows and fashion companies starting up as well.
Let's face it they would have been building $7,000,000 condos in Milwaukee back in 1992.
Can we agree that Milwaukee is in the Rust Belt? We both agree that Milwaukee is not Detroit. I used the phrase "Detroit Light". I also said it has felt the same effects of Rust Belt style urban decay as Detroit but, ON A SMALLER SCALE. Hence, the "Light" qualifyer in my analogy.
Also, if most of the city of Milwaukee is so wonderful, why has the middle class left? Why does it continue to leave. You can leave race out of this because the middle class flight is mulit-racial. Look at the Falls and Brown Deer.
Wonderful cities don't have shrinking public school enrollment.
Wonderful cities don't have to force city employee's to live within the city proper.
Milwaukee is not Detroit. But it is far from prosperous. It is one of the poorest cities in the US.
Can we agree that Milwaukee is in the Rust Belt? We both agree that Milwaukee is not Detroit. I used the phrase "Detroit Light". I also said it has felt the same effects of Rust Belt style urban decay as Detroit but, ON A SMALLER SCALE. Hence, the "Light" qualifyer in my analogy.
Also, if most of the city of Milwaukee is so wonderful, why has the middle class left? Why does it continue to leave. You can leave race out of this because the middle class flight is mulit-racial. Look at the Falls and Brown Deer.
Wonderful cities don't have shrinking public school enrollment.
Wonderful cities don't have to force city employee's to live within the city proper.
Milwaukee is not Detroit. But it is far from prosperous. It is one of the poorest cities in the US.
If Milwaukee is Detroit light so are the following: St.Louis, Cleveland, Memphis, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Twin Cities, Chicago, Philly, and so on. The problems found in Milwaukee are for most part the same problems found in all northern and eastern cities. These problems are universal to this area with a few exceptions. The challenge in the coming decades is how to do we rebuild and get back on solid footing. Not only for Milwaukee, but for all the so called rust belt cities. In defense of Milwaukee the city has done a better than average job of reinventing itself and holding some of the neighborhoods together. I would rank it in the top half of rust belt cities. The east side, downtown, Bay View, 3rd ward have done an excellent job of reclaiming themselves.
ALNINO do you fully understand the devastation done to our northern cities. They had everything going against them for over 30 years. White flight, loss of industry, aging infrastructure, pollution, blight etc. It's amazing Milwaukee and others even survived. Milwaukee is piecing itself together, but its going to be a long process. Maybe 50 years or so. Also, please don't compare Milwaukee to Madison. These are two radically different places. Madison never had to deal with 3/4 of the problems which were dealt to Milwaukee or any other large industrial rust belt city. A city built on higher education and government will have a different set of issues.
Last edited by Allan Trafton; 10-16-2009 at 11:01 AM..
If Milwaukee is Detroit light so are the following: St.Louis, Cleveland, Memphis, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Twin Cities, Chicago, Philly, and so on. The problems found in Milwaukee are for most part the same problems found in all northern and eastern cities. These problems are universal to this area with a few exceptions. The challenge in the coming decades is how to do we rebuild and get back on solid footing. Not only for Milwaukee, but for all the so called rust belt cities. In defense of Milwaukee the city has done a better than average job of reinventing itself and holding some of the neighborhoods together. I would rank it in the top half of rust belt cities. The east side, downtown, Bay View, 3rd ward have done an excellent job of reclaiming themselves.
ALNINO do you fully understand the devastation done to our northern cities. They had everything going against them for over 30 years. White flight, loss of industry, aging infrastructure, pollution, blight etc. It's amazing Milwaukee and others even survived. Milwaukee is piecing itself together, but its going to be a long process. Maybe 50 years or so. Also, please don't compare Milwaukee to Madison. These are two radically different places. Madison never had to deal with 3/4 of the problems which were dealt to Milwaukee or any other large industrial rust belt city. A city built on higher education and government will have a different set of issues.
I completely agree with everything in your post. You are 100% right.
However, the topic of this thread is "Seeking Advice For People Possibly Relocating to MKE Area". And, I suggested to the original poster to live in the burbs.
Why? Because life is short. I certainly don't have time to put up with the pains of a city trying to rebuild itself. If a new resident has the time and patience to put up with the BS, I say go for it. Just know what you're getting into.
Wonderful cities don't have shrinking public school enrollment.
Actually try finding any public school that isn't declining, public schools themselves are to blame for declining enrollment not the city.
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Wonderful cities don't have to force city employee's to live within the city proper.
Actually majority of Big us cities do.
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also, if most of the city of Milwaukee is so wonderful, why has the middle class left?
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Milwaukee is not Detroit. But it is far from prosperous. It is one of the poorest cities in the US.
I would say majority of Milwaukee is middle class. Since Milwaukee is not even in the top 10 of poorest cities and is actually listed as 235th wealthiest cities ranked among all cities in the us right behind St.Louis.
I completely agree with everything in your post. You are 100% right.
However, the topic of this thread is "Seeking Advice For People Possibly Relocating to MKE Area". And, I suggested to the original poster to live in the burbs.
Why? Because life is short. I certainly don't have time to put up with the pains of a city trying to rebuild itself. If a new resident has the time and patience to put up with the BS, I say go for it. Just know what you're getting into.
That's your opinion, as someone who lives, I'm guessing, in Madison. Maybe in a suburb of Madison. Or maybe in a small town.
There are areas of the city that are nice, that have been nice, and that will be nice. In addition, there are areas that have turned from dumpy, vacant warehouse areas, into nice residential areas, where one doesn't have to drive three miles just to get a cup of decent coffee. You're equating living in the City of Milwaukee to BS. I'm not sure how you made the countless logical leaps between living in the city and equating it to BS, but there are a lot of blanks for you to fill in. It isn't even about the rust belt. The whole rust belt effect is important, but it's not as if cities outside of the rust belt have no issues. If I wanted to make the same case you made about Milwaukee, about any major city, I could do that.
Also, not everyone likes suburban living. There are many good reasons not to live in suburbs, and one could also make misleading statements about suburban life, or Madisonian life, or small town life.
That's your opinion, as someone who lives, I'm guessing, in Madison. Maybe in a suburb of Madison. Or maybe in a small town.
There are areas of the city that are nice, that have been nice, and that will be nice. In addition, there are areas that have turned from dumpy, vacant warehouse areas, into nice residential areas, where one doesn't have to drive three miles just to get a cup of decent coffee. You're equating living in the City of Milwaukee to BS. I'm not sure how you made the countless logical leaps between living in the city and equating it to BS, but there are a lot of blanks for you to fill in. It isn't even about the rust belt. The whole rust belt effect is important, but it's not as if cities outside of the rust belt have no issues. If I wanted to make the same case you made about Milwaukee, about any major city, I could do that.
Also, not everyone likes suburban living. There are many good reasons not to live in suburbs, and one could also make misleading statements about suburban life, or Madisonian life, or small town life.
Excellent observation. My guess would be Madison. For being such a tolerant liberal progressive place Madison is very much anti big city. Very strange seeing how almost all large cities vote Democratic and are liberal. ALNINO makes valid points, but when you go on the attack and claim the entire city is like the north side and full of chickenheads you pretty much lose your credibility. My advice try to be fair and look at the big picture, not just neighborhoods full of chickenheads. Whatever they are.
Good thing I came on here, because I learned from AlNino that I apparently have to deal with the "pains" of living in a city "trying to rebuild itself."
Yeah, I'm in pain. Living in Milwaukee hurts.
It hurts to have easy access day and night to a top notch cultural scene. To be surrounded by a huge variety of diverse entertainment and dining options.
It causes me great pain to go for bike ride along the Lake Michigan shoreline, along a string of parks and beaches from Fox Point to Cudahy. I scream in pain just thinking about it.
It really hurts to be smack dab in the middle of the economic and employment center of the state. One quarter of the state's jobs are located within a bus ride or bike ride from my home. It hurts to know that if I want to look for another job I have vastly more options than a place like Madison or Wausau.
I can't tell you how much it hurts to be able to live in a clean, safe neighborhood full of tree lined streets, a diverse array of housing styles, easy access to parks and everything the city has to offer, AND to be able to afford my own home in it. Ooooooh, the pain!
It really hurts to be surrounded by diversity every day. A plethora of languages, cultures, life styles and backgrounds. It causes me acute pain to live around others who are not like me.
It causes me a lot of pain to live in a down to earth city with very little in the way of pretentiousness and a lot in the way of individuality. I want to live in a subdivision called something like "Eagle Bluff" where everyone has an acre lot with no trees and houses all painted from the same prescribed pallete of earth tones. My street would be called "Apple Tree Lane" or some BS like that. There would be no sidewalks. That would really ease my pain.
Thanks, AlNino, whoever you are, for showing me the way out of my relentless pain! Boy, the things you learn on the internet.
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