So, how bad has this winter been compared to "normal"? (Hopkins: store, yard)

[Teddy52]

Going back to December 1st ( I know winter doesn't officially start until the 21st ) count how many nights the lows have been below average. Count how many nights the lows have been above average.

Do the same for the high temps . Count how many daytime highs are below average and how many daytime highs were above average.

If that doesn't convince you this MN winter is cold, you are a true denier !

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Teddy52

Going back to December 1st ( I know winter doesn't officially start until the 21st ) count how many nights the lows have been below average. Count how many nights the lows have been above average.

Do the same for the high temps . Count how many daytime highs are below average and how many daytime highs were above average.

If that doesn't convince you this MN winter is cold, you are a true denier !

I reread every post. No one has denied that this is a comparatively cold winter.

[Teddy52]

Originally Posted by QueenBee

While this winter has seemed particularly brutal, winters have been trending milder than normal over the past 10+ years. I have read several articles which indicate that this winter is right on par with winters through the late 70s and 80s. So while it is one of the coldest in the past 20 years or so, it really isn't abnormally cold historically, unfortunately.

As far as heating costs, it really depends on your home and how energy efficient it is. We have a new home (built 2012), 4,500 finished square feet and pay $97 monthly on the budget plan (averaged to be the same amount each month) for natural gas and $100 monthly budget plan for electric. We have all gas appliances, heating, water heater, 2 gas fireplaces, etc. This is about $30/month less than we paid in our old 1980 built 2,600 square foot home. Our actual gas costs last month ran around $180. I really haven't noticed much difference in heating costs from last winter.

......"it really isn't abnormally cold historically ".


Sounds like Glendive missed a few posts

[Teddy52]

Originally Posted by mike6679

Colder January, little more snow. Heard reports, and would agree, it's not so much that this winter was that bad just that the last couple have been mild so it seems worse.

....."just that the last couple have been mild so it seems worse"...

These two posts were just on the first page.

Sounds like,,,,,,,,,,deniers.......to me

[Kamsack]

Originally Posted by Globe199

Not just useless. I read anecdotal evidence last winter that the 384-hr GFS can affect natural gas futures if the predicted temperature is very cold. Think about that for a moment. Here you have a prediction model that is often laughably inaccurate, but it can affect the price of heating.

There has been some local commentary about how this winter doesn't compare to the brutality of the two bad winters we had in the late 70s. I find this misleading. The thing to remember is that those winters were highly anomalous.

very true. I was thinking strictly from a meteorological/forecaster standpoint out thru day 7. But you are indeed correct in the last decade the energy sector has hired quite a few mets to help with the very long range....

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Teddy52

......"it really isn't abnormally cold historically ".


Sounds like Glendive missed a few posts

Both posts cited, when read completely, say it's a cold winter compared to others, just not the coldest ever. Take it how you want. If it makes you feel special to think this is some unparalleled time in history, then go for it, Toddy.

[Teddy52]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Both posts cited, when read completely, say it's a cold winter compared to others, just not the coldest ever. Take it how you want. If it makes you feel special to think this is some unparalleled time in history, then go for it, Toddy.

No, it says it only seems like a cold winter because we are comparing them to warmer winters.
I believe I was comparing this winter to all winters.

(isn't that what average means ?)

also,
deliberately misspelling someone's name is mighty juvenile.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Teddy52

deliberately misspelling someone's name is mighty juvenile.

Originally Posted by Teddy52

......"it really isn't abnormally cold historically ".


Sounds like Glendive missed a few posts

Hmmmmm, it seems we found something we can agree on. Kind of got my hackles up when you did it, and I see you don't like it much when you got it back.

[Kamsack]

Via the National Weather Weather Service climate database was able to look
at rankings for the lowest average temp recorded for the period Dec 1st to Feb 6th
covering 68 days. This is for MSP airport location only...with data back to 1938.
But for MSP preliminary data shows it so far in 6th place in comparison to other years.
Meteorological winter runs from Dec 1 to Feb 28th.

So from below...6th place out of 70+ years of data isnt too bad.


Rank...Value...Ending Date
1.......7.3......2/ 6/1977
2.......8.2......2/ 6/1979
3.......8.6......2/ 6/1982
4.......8.7......2/ 6/1984
5.......9.4......2/ 6/1978
6.......9.6......2/ 6/2014
7......10.4.....2/ 6/1951
8......11.0.....2/ 6/1972
9......11.2.....2/ 6/1962
10.....11.4.....2/ 6/2009
11.....11.5.....2/ 6/1963
12.....11.7.....2/ 6/1965
13.....11.9.....2/ 6/1971
14.....12.1.....2/ 6/1943
15.....12.3.....2/ 6/1994
16.....12.4.....2/ 6/1985
17.....12.5.....2/ 6/1970
18.....12.6.....2/ 6/1956, 2/ 6/1969, 2/ 6/1996, 2/ 6/1959
22.....12.9.....2/ 6/1997

I glanced at the average max and min temps for the the same Dec 1 to Feb 6th period for MSP.

For lowest average maximum temp so far this season it is running at 18.5 degrees, or in 6th place.
Coldest average max for the same period is 16.5 during the 83/84 winter.

For lowest average minimum temp it is 0.7 which is in fourth place. Coldest average min for
the same period is -2.7 during the 76/77 winter.

Going back through the entire Minneapolis-St Paul climate data base to the 1880s (when the climate station was in various locations) shows for the lowest average temp for the Dec 1- Feb 6 period was in 1887 at 3.2 degrees, and this winter to date we are 13th coldest. This is preliminary data....

[Grizzly Addams]

This is the worst winter I've ever experienced.