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For example, go into an elevator with people you don't know. 9 out of 10 times here, there is silence during your trip. In the South, someone always seems to break the silence with a witty comment, compliment, or other form of small talk. I've learned to ignor the so-called "snobbiness", and don't usually notice it anymore until I go South for a trip... then it really stands out.
I don't think it has anything to do with "snobbiness" at all. I think it's a cultural difference, and probably has to do with the Germanic/Scandinavian background of the area. People have a tendency to not break down the walls between strangers in large part to not be intrusive. The point is that you've noticed something (i.e.: silence in elevators), then ascribed an inaccurate cause to it (i.e.: snobbiness) that makes it seem even worse. We can't control the initial phenonmenon, but we can control how we react to or interpret it. I think you've chosen a negative interpretation. Minnesotans may have cultural norms that are different than yours and different cultural norms often seem to communicate something completely different from what was intended.
Minnesotans don't crack the ice too deeply, from the norms of this cultural landscape. I think it's more from a desire to not intrude or overestimate the relationship we have with other people. And yes, many Minnesotans already have a circle of friends/family/acquaintances that they're happy with. I don't see anything inherently wrong or bad about that, but I can see how it would be difficult coming in from the outside.
When I first moved to Minneapolis 18 years ago, I, too, was impressed with the "Minnesota nice" people. But what I've come to learn since is that's it's very superficial. People can be nice, but it's not genuine.
It's also impossible to make friends here if you're from out of state. The natives who have grown up here have their friends and family from high school days and have no need to include outsiders in their circle of friends. (I've also heard this from others who have moved here.) Or if you do happen to make friends with a native, they'll do activities with you alone, but not include you with their other friends. I have lived in the north and south before moving here and have never had a problem making friends until I moved here.
I am looking forward to moving south where the people are genuinely friendly and want to get to know you.
You took the words right out of my mouth...the key is genuine. I'm from the south and although I don't necessarily want to move all the way back to GA, I would prefer living somewhere where people make eye contact and like you said, invite you to meet their friends and not just hang with you alone like they are doing you some sort of favor.
I am so glad I'm not alone! I have lived here for 3 years, and it has been the loneliest 3 years of my life! I married a Minnesotan, who I met while I was living in FL. We moved up here after the wedding, with high hopes! We are now planning on moving back south, to TN next summer. People here don't necessarily mean to be rude or cold, but I find that they are all from here, so they have their established family and friends and they will be nice to you, but they don't invite you over, they don't call, they don't do anything! And by the way, this goes for the twin cities as well as the small towns. We live in the burbs, and my in-laws live up in Fergus Falls, small town. It's all the same. They are the nicest people as long as they don't have to actually get to know you. Very sad. I have been so disappointed, but I can't function in this environment anymore. I am so thankful to be moving south! And by the way, I have lived all over the world in 5 different countries, and the culture shock and loneliness I have felt here has been by far the worst. Please take it to heart if you are from here! Invite someone other than your brother's family over for dinner!
Thanks,
Beachmommy19
That's right beachmommy. I too am going to move back south or somewhere other than here. I think natives think if they talk to you it's all good. But we are looking to connect with people and get to know them. I hear this complaint from every person I have ever met that is not from here.
The ones that are married to people from here tolerate it, but they hate it, hate it, hate it.
fitra... did you even read the response from Veridian? The post makes many great points... something to consider. As a native Minnesotan who's lived all over, I've not had any trouble meeting people. It's still been me though, that had to make the effort. And I had to consciously do it too, because I did grow up not wanting to intrude on others' social lives. We're modest people and never want to overestimate our welcome. It's not rudeness or disinterest.
That's right beachmommy. I too am going to move back south or somewhere other than here. I think natives think if they talk to you it's all good. But we are looking to connect with people and get to know them. I hear this complaint from every person I have ever met that is not from here.
The ones that are married to people from here tolerate it, but they hate it, hate it, hate it.
The "native" MN's, are not rude or snobs if they don't talk to you. I can't figure it out either. I have lived here since birth and people are a bit stand offish. Not rude or snobs, they just keep to themselves. I don't understand it. When I was a kid my parents knew every neighbor and they had block parties. Now, we don't know half our neighbors. They give you a little smile and a wave when they drive or walk by, but thats about it. I miss the way it once was. Nobody goes to the neighbors for a "cup of coffee" anymore. Everyone says we are too busy nowadays. I don't believe it. Look at how much time is spent on the computer or other "technologies" when that time could be spent socializing. I think people have forgot how to socialize. The socializing "gene" has been "bred" out of us. With each generation not socializing, the kids never learn how, and "poof" we have become socially awkward.
My brother in law married a girl from the Philipines. They are very social people, in general. She has only been here 10 years and knows more people than anyone in general would. They have get togethers with huge buffets at least once a month.There is always a big gathering for a childs birthday or for whatever reason they want. Everyone brings a dish to share and they laugh and have a good time. They have two kids 5 and 3, there is always at least 30-40 people at the birthday parties. I am always jealous of this.
The only time people seem to get together with a meal and have real good time is the holidays. About 20 years ago there was always a bbq or a get together. Now it seems no one wants to be bothered with them or people only stay for a short time and leave. They show up for the meal, chat for a short time then leave. Its sad. I also think that people think its rude to "linger" at someones home. It doesn't matter who has the get together, its the same everywhere. People leave shortly after the meal is done. Nobody wants to play cards or games or visit. Visit, thats the funny part, people making small talk, the conversation seems to die over and over. I watch people and its so funny. It starts out with, "how ya been?" good,
"thats good", "what you been up to?" not much,
with each question the conversation dies. Pathetic. Its almost like being interrogated.
I think we need to teach our kids the fine art of socialization. Before nobody leaves their homes anymore.
Last edited by asitshouldbe; 01-02-2009 at 05:00 AM..
I love how people make generalizations about an entire state because of a couple experiences. We know our neighbors, we get together with them for parties, etc. Our kids play with the neighbor kids. We are from MN but we are new to our town and have had no problems getting to know people here. In our old town, same thing, we knew our neighbors, had block parties, etc.
Keep in mind that when you were younger, most moms stayed home and had more time to stop over for coffee. Today a lot of the socializing takes place at kid's soccer games vs over the kitchen table. Things change.
I also have to wonder about people that come here with a very bad attitude, spouting about how unfriendly people are here, how they can't wait to get out, etc. and how it is everyone else's fault if they don't have friends--couldn't it not be that people don't like your attitude and that is why they don't call you to go out?
I don't think it has anything to do with "snobbiness" at all. I think it's a cultural difference, and probably has to do with the Germanic/Scandinavian background of the area. People have a tendency to not break down the walls between strangers in large part to not be intrusive. The point is that you've noticed something (i.e.: silence in elevators), then ascribed an inaccurate cause to it (i.e.: snobbiness) that makes it seem even worse. We can't control the initial phenonmenon, but we can control how we react to or interpret it. I think you've chosen a negative interpretation. Minnesotans may have cultural norms that are different than yours and different cultural norms often seem to communicate something completely different from what was intended.
Minnesotans don't crack the ice too deeply, from the norms of this cultural landscape. I think it's more from a desire to not intrude or overestimate the relationship we have with other people. And yes, many Minnesotans already have a circle of friends/family/acquaintances that they're happy with. I don't see anything inherently wrong or bad about that, but I can see how it would be difficult coming in from the outside.
We have a winner. The culture is still similar to Norway and Sweden in some ways.
Many people from the east coast might have more in common with the culture of somewhere like Italy.
I concur with a lot of the southerners in this board, I am a southerner as well and it is SO hard to make friends here in Minnesota. It is different than anywhere else in the country, the people in New York were friendlier than the people here. It just sucks because you want to get to know people, you go out of your way and try to get them to open up, but its like talking to a brick wall. Co-workers, people in public, people online, its mostly all the same here in the Twin Cities. They'll be nice to you, sure...but anything more than that and its like pulling teeth. Never experienced anything like it anywhere else and it just is a real downer.
I also have to wonder about people that come here with a very bad attitude, spouting about how unfriendly people are here, how they can't wait to get out, etc. and how it is everyone else's fault if they don't have friends--couldn't it not be that people don't like your attitude and that is why they don't call you to go out?
I actually have friends here in Minnesota, but it took a longggg time to make those connections. To the point that I am no longer interested in trying so hard to make more. I just recently went to California to visit a friend. She invited some people over and we all talked and it felt like I have know them forever. We all traded email addresses and one of them I speak to frequently. I'm sorry that natives don't see it, but it shouldn't take that long to connect. It doesn't happen anywhere else but here in MN from my experience. I spoke to a man the other day walking through the skyway and he almost flipped over his suitcases. Most of the natives here are just weird and reclusive. Truth hurts, but it's still the truth!
I concur with a lot of the southerners in this board, I am a southerner as well and it is SO hard to make friends here in Minnesota. It is different than anywhere else in the country, the people in New York were friendlier than the people here. It just sucks because you want to get to know people, you go out of your way and try to get them to open up, but its like talking to a brick wall. Co-workers, people in public, people online, its mostly all the same here in the Twin Cities. They'll be nice to you, sure...but anything more than that and its like pulling teeth. Never experienced anything like it anywhere else and it just is a real downer.
Amen! I even know a couple of natives that have gone to live elsewhere and returned to Minnesota. Even they are amazed at how easy it is to meet people elsewhere. They come back here and they see it. No one is trying to pick on Minnesotans. We are actually trying to be genuinely friendly, not MN nice.
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