Puzzle: Cost of living in MN (Minneapolis, St. Paul: neighborhoods, shops, moving to)

[NY2MN]

We all have different demands, however there is simple math which should work. I am looking at it this way breaking the expenses to categories. While I may agree that buying a house is better deal in MN, I would like to look at other aspects of living.

Let's talk about necessary expenses in NY taking average prices, considering that a person does not have much to desire

1. Car, assuming 20 miles a day , 1 gallon of gas = $4.00, same comes to public transportation ( approximately)
2. Food, $25 a day.
3. Nanny, $70 per day , or day care $40 per day
4. Apartment ( studio) $40 per day in some not too nasty neighborhood.

The above calculation does not include any clothing or educational expenses, just a bare minimum to survive. The total comes to

Gas-$120, Food- $750, nanny- $2100 or $1200 a day care, apartment - $1200 = $4170 ( with nanny) $3270 ( day care)

That is after tax, with the tax ($25%) I should be making to survive $5212.50 (with nanny) , $4087 ( day care) , it is $62500 or $ $49044.


Thus, for one adult with one child the minimum salary should be $55000 per year before tax, assuming that I am saving on food, cooking at home, not buying any books downloading them from torrent sites, and wearing classic jeans made in 1985.


Would be nice to get the same calculation for MN to compare

[Ghengis]

Originally Posted by NY2MN

Would be nice to get the same calculation for MN to compare

gee that would be nice, I wonder why nobody ever thought of putting some type of cost of living calculator that would compare two different cities on the web?

[NY2MN]

Originally Posted by Ghengis

gee that would be nice, I wonder why nobody ever thought of putting some type of cost of living calculator that would compare two different cities on the web?

Because all comparison is subjective.

[Drewcifer]

Edina is not really a good comparison to Forest Hills, It is one of the most expensive suburbs in the Twin Cities. A better comparison would be Southwest Minneapolis. You can get a studio in Southwest for less than $700 a month. Also gas doesn't cost $4.00 a gallon in Minnesota, right now I am paying around $3.60.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by NY2MN

Could you please give a price example for 3 bedroom , 2 bathroom 1400 sq. ft , within 20 minutes from the center of the city ( concentration of jobs). I would also assume very well maintained property, neighborhood, great school district.

Thank you

It really depends on what you consider very well maintained and what features you want but for a 3 bedroom house that is only 1400 sq feet you are probably looking at $1500-1900. If you want a suburban house with 3 bedrooms, you will have closer to 2500-3500 sq feet for $2500-3000/month on the high end. You can probably find something for $6000/month but that is more than most mortgage payments so I don't know why you would want to. Heck, $3000 is more than most mortgage payments on houses that size.

Originally Posted by NY2MN

We all have different demands, however there is simple math which should work. I am looking at it this way breaking the expenses to categories. While I may agree that buying a house is better deal in MN, I would like to look at other aspects of living.

Let's talk about necessary expenses in NY taking average prices, considering that a person does not have much to desire

1. Car, assuming 20 miles a day , 1 gallon of gas = $4.00, same comes to public transportation ( approximately)
2. Food, $25 a day.
3. Nanny, $70 per day , or day care $40 per day
4. Apartment ( studio) $40 per day in some not too nasty neighborhood.

The above calculation does not include any clothing or educational expenses, just a bare minimum to survive. The total comes to

Gas-$120, Food- $750, nanny- $2100 or $1200 a day care, apartment - $1200 = $4170 ( with nanny) $3270 ( day care)

That is after tax, with the tax ($25%) I should be making to survive $5212.50 (with nanny) , $4087 ( day care) , it is $62500 or $ $49044.


Thus, for one adult with one child the minimum salary should be $55000 per year before tax, assuming that I am saving on food, cooking at home, not buying any books downloading them from torrent sites, and wearing classic jeans made in 1985.


Would be nice to get the same calculation for MN to compare

1. Gas is about $3.50/gallon
2. I don't spend $750/month for our family of 5-3 teenagers, and I am not much of a coupon clipper or anything like that
3. Daycare runs about the same per month as you are looking at per week (but someone that actually uses daycare can give better numbers but last I heard it's about $200/week give or take).
4. Rent is going to be $1500-2000/month for a nice place give or take a couple hundred.

What is the salary they are offering and where exactly is the job? If it is in downtown Minneapolis, you need to figure parking costs or bus costs. If the job is in the suburbs you won't have to pay parking and can probably find a place where you can walk to work and not pay through the nose for rent, saving gas/public transportation costs.

I would say in the Twin Cities for a single adult and child that a salary of $50,000 would give you a comfortable life, but not an extravagant life.

[NY2MN]

Thank you , GolfGal. That is the information I was looking for and my conclusion that saying "The life is less expensive here compare to NYC" is really a myth.

I am comfortable with "15% less salary" statement, and it sounds reasonable to me. Less taxes, no toll roads\bridges , less parking tickets would certainly fit into those 15% deduction.

I am also concluded that the most of the savings is in the real estate, otherwise the life cost is about the same as in NY or anywhere in the country.

[uptown_urbanist]

What?!? Yes, absolutely, life is cheaper in Minneapolis than in New York City! Does that mean you can't get a good deal in NYC? No, of course not. But if you compare apples to apples, Minneapolis is still far more affordable. And yes, it's mostly in the housing... BUT, since that takes the biggest bite out of most budgets, that's the most important factor. You can get a decent studio in Uptown for $700, even less; you can get a spacious 2-BR duplex with a yard suitable for a family (or what in Manhattan or hot parts of Brooklyn they'd market as a 4-BR) or $1,200. One thing that could counteract that is that it's tougher to live without a car in Minneapolis (although not impossible), so for many people transportation costs are probably going to be higher in Minneapolis. But since it sounds like you had a car and spent a lot of time driving in NYC, you'll probably actually see your transportation costs go down significantly. Food probably is about the same, but that depends on where you do your shopping. (In NYC I think it's actually easier to spend less, but also very easy to spend more. There's simply more options on both sides)

That said, I wouldn't take a big cut in compensation. Your 15% figure doesn't sound off -- cost of living is much lower than in NYC, but salaries are not necessarily equivalently lower. When my husband was comparing his then-NYC salary to some similar Minneapolis jobs he was considering, he was looking at only about a 15% difference in terms of salary. The salary to cost of living ratio was definitely better in Minneapolis. But then... you also give up the benefits that come with living in NYC, but on the other hand, the salary/cost of living ratio in Minneapolis is such that you could very well have a greater percentage of your income that you can devote to travel and vacations.

[NY2MN]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

But since it sounds like you had a car and spent a lot of time driving in NYC, you'll probably actually see your transportation costs go down significantly.

I do not drive in NYC , I usually ride a bicycle . The car is usually used on a weekend, otherwise I would prefer to use public transportation, it is not that comfortable, but gets you to to a destination.

Salary vs Spending is the right thing to look at, I agree. And I also think it would be wrong just to look at the numbers.

In order not to get away from the subject I would like to say that I am also not debating the convenience of living and other similar factors. I do not find living in NYC beneficial, unless you are very young or very old and lonely.

Young - to have things like lots of bars, night clubs and following easy relationships.
Old - lots of museums, theaters and other attractions such as ethnically defined neighborhoods.
Tourists, illegal immigrants and movie stars are not part of this conversation.

The NYC life is not fun for families with traditional values. All good things for that category are happening outside of the city. By the way, I live in NYC for 15 years.

[uptown_urbanist]

Well, if you don't like the things that make NYC so special, then there's no reason to pay the premium to live there (unless you have family in the city). I prefer NYC for our family (with a child), but there's no denying that it's cheaper in Minneapolis.

[dravogadro]

Originally Posted by NY2MN

I do not drive in NYC , I usually ride a bicycle . The car is usually used on a weekend, otherwise I would prefer to use public transportation, it is not that comfortable, but gets you to to a destination.

The public transportation is not as good here but the cycling is a lot better.