SOS, I need a change! (Minneapolis, St. Paul: fit in, rental, house)

[Find My Home]

How is life for single, professionals over 30 in metro-Minn? It seems alot of threads address families (couples with school-aged children) or college students.

I am interested in finding a place where there are: 1) JOBS!!! (and preferably not of the minimum wage variety); 2) culture; 3) a solid sense of community; and 4) an appreciation for diversity (cultural, ethnic, opinion, age groups, etc.). Metro-Minn has made my short-list because it has been portrayed as fairly laid back and socially progressive with good schools and family-friendly amenities. I have read forum posts and other articles and have even visited the area at least twice now, but there are still some items that are a mystery to me.

Apart from the single angle, another of my concerns involves diversity. I recently attended an interview where the prospective employer went on in great detail about their need to eradicate racial friction in the workplace and began to drill me about the organization's mandates to help staff embrace diversity. I suppose I should be grateful the organization was willing to address what presumably is a major issue for them, but I still found the interviewer's comments and approach off-putting. I was always trained on the "golden rule": do unto others as you would like to have done unto you. So I was a little wary when the employer made it a point to lecture me about the organization's need to enforce "mandatory" activities to acheive civility in the workplace. I guess I just assumed that most people like to be judged by their character and not their gender or packaging here in the 21st century, but maybe my presumption was a little too optimistic.

As a relocatee, I am especially interested in hearing from women and/or persons "of color" about their perception of metro-Minn's overall quality of life. Do you find that there are open opportunities for career advancement or do you feel pigeon-holed into "lower level" jobs? In other words, do you feel the playing field is fairly level? In my visits, I have found it easier to get positive responses for retail/customer service work which is fine to get established in the area, but I don't wished to be "locked into" these job tracks long-term. Do women and/or ethnic persons with training and experience find it difficult to find white-collar/technical employment? Is there a strong social and commercial network among African Americans? How is the business/entrepreneur climate for AAs? How is the AA relationship with law enforcement? I did get pulled over during my last visit for presumably weaving on the road (I wasn't) and was subjected to questions that had absolutely nothing to do with my driving (ie. what was the nature of my visit; where was I headed; where was I staying, etc.). The officer scanned my rental vehicle with a flashlight before letting me leave. This experience was also strange. The last place I had that type of experience was in the deep south. I have never had any run-in's with law enforcement of any kind. I happened to be passing through a city called 'brooklyn (??) (north of minn) at the time. Any comments about the social environment would be appreciated.

Also, what are good places to live? I have seen the lists provided on the threads, but residents of the area have suggested that I might find areas like Edina, less than friendly. How true is this statement? Where are the areas of worship (non-denominational; evangelical)? What types of social clubs are there? How is the dating scene for someone with my profile? Are there other items I should know that I haven't asked here?

My experiences to-date have been mostly positive and I am hopeful that will remain the case should I decide to set roots in metro-Minn, but I would like to get a full perspective (good, bad and otherwise) before I leap. I don't want one strange interview experience and one odd traffic stop to jade my perception unneccessarily, but I wish to be objective enough to hear the other side (if there is one).

Thanks to all who reply. All opinions are welcome. Your candor is appreciated.

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by Find My Home

How is life for single, professionals over 30 in metro-Minn? It seems alot of threads address families (couples with school-aged children) or college students.

I am interested in finding a place where there are: 1) JOBS!!! (and preferably not of the minimum wage variety); 2) culture; 3) a solid sense of community; and 4) an appreciation for diversity (cultural, ethnic, opinion, age groups, etc.). Metro-Minn has made my short-list because it has been portrayed as fairly laid back and socially progressive with good schools and family-friendly amenities. I have read forum posts and other articles and have even visited the area at least twice now, but there are still some items that are a mystery to me.

Apart from the single angle, another of my concerns involves diversity. I recently attended an interview where the prospective employer went on in great detail about their need to eradicate racial friction in the workplace and began to drill me about the organization's mandates to help staff embrace diversity. I suppose I should be grateful the organization was willing to address what presumably is a major issue for them, but I still found the interviewer's comments and approach off-putting. I was always trained on the "golden rule": do unto others as you would like to have done unto you. So I was a little wary when the employer made it a point to lecture me about the organization's need to enforce "mandatory" activities to acheive civility in the workplace. I guess I just assumed that most people like to be judged by their character and not their gender or packaging here in the 21st century, but maybe my presumption was a little too optimistic.

As a relocatee, I am especially interested in hearing from women and/or persons "of color" about their perception of metro-Minn's overall quality of life. Do you find that there are open opportunities for career advancement or do you feel pigeon-holed into "lower level" jobs? In other words, do you feel the playing field is fairly level? In my visits, I have found it easier to get positive responses for retail/customer service work which is fine to get established in the area, but I don't wished to be "locked into" these job tracks long-term. Do women and/or ethnic persons with training and experience find it difficult to find white-collar/technical employment? Is there a strong social and commercial network among African Americans? How is the business/entrepreneur climate for AAs? How is the AA relationship with law enforcement? I did get pulled over during my last visit for presumably weaving on the road (I wasn't) and was subjected to questions that had absolutely nothing to do with my driving (ie. what was the nature of my visit; where was I headed; where was I staying, etc.). The officer scanned my rental vehicle with a flashlight before letting me leave. This experience was also strange. The last place I had that type of experience was in the deep south. I have never had any run-in's with law enforcement of any kind. I happened to be passing through a city called 'brooklyn (??) (north of minn) at the time. Any comments about the social environment would be appreciated.

Also, what are good places to live? I have seen the lists provided on the threads, but residents of the area have suggested that I might find areas like Edina, less than friendly. How true is this statement? Where are the areas of worship (non-denominational; evangelical)? What types of social clubs are there? How is the dating scene for someone with my profile? Are there other items I should know that I haven't asked here?

My experiences to-date have been mostly positive and I am hopeful that will remain the case should I decide to set roots in metro-Minn, but I would like to get a full perspective (good, bad and otherwise) before I leap. I don't want one strange interview experience and one odd traffic stop to jade my perception unneccessarily, but I wish to be objective enough to hear the other side (if there is one).

Thanks to all who reply. All opinions are welcome. Your candor is appreciated.

Diversity is a major hot topic at most larger companies. Both my wife and I are required to take training every year, and take a "quiz" to make sure we understand the content. Hiring and interview processes are often structured and required to cover certian topics such as diversity too. That might help you understand where some of that comes from. The way you described it seemed a bit on the intense side though.

Sounds like you were in Brooklyn Park or Brooklyn Center.

[Find My Home]

Thanks, Clifford, for your comments. That takes a load off. The experience was a little intense. It was the first time I had encountered that in an interview. I wasn't quite sure how to interpret it. As I said, overall my experiences have been positive so I will just have to take with a grain of salt unless I hear otherwise. Do you have any sense about the jobs market. I know that the midwest overall has been slower than other parts of the country, but do you find the Minn-area to be holding its own economically? In your opinion, do you think that the govt there is proactive in supporting the health of the area's economy? Would you happen to know the income tax rate or other helpful related info? Thanks!

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by Find My Home

Thanks, Clifford, for your comments. That takes a load off. The experience was a little intense. It was the first time I had encountered that in an interview. I wasn't quite sure how to interpret it. As I said, overall my experiences have been positive so I will just have to take with a grain of salt unless I hear otherwise. Do you have any sense about the jobs market. I know that the midwest overall has been slower than other parts of the country, but do you find the Minn-area to be holding its own economically? In your opinion, do you think that the govt there is proactive in supporting the health of the area's economy? Would you happen to know the income tax rate or other helpful related info? Thanks!

MN state income tax is a sliding scale (progressive) system. 6.5% is where most people fall. Property tax is set by county, so it does vary somewhat. Average is .9% to 1.1% of the market value.

Unemployment is about 5%, which is up a little, but not bad.

Every state is more or less forced to provide incentives to draw "new businsess". South Dakota and North Dakota have been doing a better job of that due to tax structures they have in place, but the MN economy is more robust and diverse.

If you are looking for a corporate type job, there are some pretty good web sites that will give you a fairly accurate list of questions to expect and some ideas how to answer them with success.

Sounds like you are willing to do what it takes to succeed. That goes a long way here. MN is know for a very strong work ethic. Expectations from employers can be high, and competition to move up is sometimes fierce.

I was born here, moved around quite a bit, and came back after I finished up my degree. The jobs I was offfered here more than offset cost of living, which is higher than average. Although I was gone a long time, it seemed like I was home again when I got back. Guess I missed this place and did not even know it!

[slamont61]

JOBs? I moved here to work, there are JOBs in Minnesota. If you know COBOL and want to work in the IT industry while living in rural Minnesota, I can put you in contact with the right folks.

We have two development centers, one in Sebeka and one in Eveleth. We are America's option to off shore developers. (our competition) Most of us were displaced from our previous jobs by them. Jobs, yes we have jobs.

[Find My Home]

Thanks, Clifford63, your comments were right on target for what I was looking for. Thanks also to slamont61, for all of your help. I don't happen to have an IT background, perhaps my description wasn't the clearest. It did get me to thinking though about the sector. There is so much talk about the future of IT, so I contacted a training center that specializes in IT careers to see what training/opportunities are available for this field.

It's reassuring to know that there is a committment to maintaining a healthy economic and jobs sector. I am coming from a state where that has not been the case and now we are paying the price (job loss, brain drain, etc.) Thanks for the "food for thought". Best regards!

[Thedosius]

Originally Posted by Find My Home

Apart from the single angle, another of my concerns involves diversity. I recently attended an interview where the prospective employer went on in great detail about their need to eradicate racial friction in the workplace and began to drill me about the organization's mandates to help staff embrace diversity. I suppose I should be grateful the organization was willing to address what presumably is a major issue for them, but I still found the interviewer's comments and approach off-putting. I was always trained on the "golden rule": do unto others as you would like to have done unto you. So I was a little wary when the employer made it a point to lecture me about the organization's need to enforce "mandatory" activities to acheive civility in the workplace. I guess I just assumed that most people like to be judged by their character and not their gender or packaging here in the 21st century, but maybe my presumption was a little too optimistic.

I can perhaps best inform you about the climate on racial issues here by offering my reaction to this anecdote: I find your interviewer to be perhaps well-intentioned, but jaw-droppingly cloddish and inept in the way they handled the matter. I don't know if that speaks to the Twin Cities as a region, or that individual's use of CorporateSpeak instead of tact and diplomacy. I have seen such clumsiness around issues of race once or twice myself (my experience has been with IT and Finance), but it is hard to say if that is some sort of "norm" here or not- I can say that I've always found it shocking, so perhaps that indicates that it is not the norm.

As a relocatee, I am especially interested in hearing from women and/or persons "of color" about their perception of metro-Minn's overall quality of life. Do you find that there are open opportunities for career advancement or do you feel pigeon-holed into "lower level" jobs? In other words, do you feel the playing field is fairly level? In my visits, I have found it easier to get positive responses for retail/customer service work which is fine to get established in the area, but I don't wished to be "locked into" these job tracks long-term. Do women and/or ethnic persons with training and experience find it difficult to find white-collar/technical employment? Is there a strong social and commercial network among African Americans? How is the business/entrepreneur climate for AAs? How is the AA relationship with law enforcement? I did get pulled over during my last visit for presumably weaving on the road (I wasn't) and was subjected to questions that had absolutely nothing to do with my driving (ie. what was the nature of my visit; where was I headed; where was I staying, etc.). The officer scanned my rental vehicle with a flashlight before letting me leave. This experience was also strange. The last place I had that type of experience was in the deep south. I have never had any run-in's with law enforcement of any kind. I happened to be passing through a city called 'brooklyn (??) (north of minn) at the time. Any comments about the social environment would be appreciated.

As neither a woman nor a person of color, I don't know that my perspective will be of much use. However, I have had some illuminating conversations with some people of color that may obliquely speak to your questions. I was shocked, saddened, and angered when two acquaintances of mine were pulled over by the police for no reason that they could fathom, other than DWB ("Driving While Black"). They clearly found me naive that I was surprised and upset by it, whereas they seemed somewhat resigned to the situation. There have been some major bones of contention between the African-American community and the Minneapolis Police Department, however I don't know how good or bad such relations are compared to other municipalities around the country, and I don't know anything about Police/community relations in St. Paul or the suburbs.

Another anecdotal observation I can offer you is this. I have a white male friend who moved to Atlanta several years ago. He comments often about how shocked he is that in the city of Martin Luther King, he finds that people are incredibly socially segregated by race. It was his personal and anecdotal perception that people mix much more freely in the Twin Cities than in Atlanta. I don't have enough experience with Atlanta to say if I personally agree or disagree.

One point that is objective, however, is that the Twin Cities are perhaps the whitest, least racially diverse mid-sized to large urban centers in the country. That is clear from census information. Whether that means that you as an individual will feel at home or not is far from certain.

Also, what are good places to live? I have seen the lists provided on the threads, but residents of the area have suggested that I might find areas like Edina, less than friendly. How true is this statement? Where are the areas of worship (non-denominational; evangelical)? What types of social clubs are there? How is the dating scene for someone with my profile? Are there other items I should know that I haven't asked here?

Well, good places to live is a deeply subjective matter. Personally, I'm a city boy, I hate driving (so prefer walking, taking mass transit, etc.), and consequently like living in areas where businesses are intermingled with residential areas. In other words, I hate bedroom communities. I don't know if you are the same.

I don't think it is ever true that an entire area is "less than friendly". I think its the luck of draw. I've been blessed with some great neighbors.

Areas of worship are interspersed throughout the metro area.

I can't guess about the dating scene, sorry.

My experiences to-date have been mostly positive and I am hopeful that will remain the case should I decide to set roots in metro-Minn, but I would like to get a full perspective (good, bad and otherwise) before I leap. I don't want one strange interview experience and one odd traffic stop to jade my perception unneccessarily, but I wish to be objective enough to hear the other side (if there is one).

Thanks to all who reply. All opinions are welcome. Your candor is appreciated.

I like your devotion to objectivity. I think that not letting those experiences you had (which I regard as aberrations, but not completely unbelievable...like they would be just about any place else) overly color your impression of this community is wise.

In short, I would say this community is a mixed bag. It is the home of Hubert H Humphrey and Walter Mondale- two senators who were some of the most devoted drivers of Civil Rights legislation back in the 60's. There is a strong tradition of progressivism. For the relative "whiteness" of urban area, Minneapolis did have a two-term woman of color as mayor (Sharon Sayles Belton). I really think that an overall picture cannot be drawn: I've heard radically different experiences from people. I think it's all a matter of luck and what kind of people you run into in life.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Thedosius

Another anecdotal observation I can offer you is this. I have a white male friend who moved to Atlanta several years ago. He comments often about how shocked he is that in the city of Martin Luther King, he finds that people are incredibly socially segregated by race. It was his personal and anecdotal perception that people mix much more freely in the Twin Cities than in Atlanta. I don't have enough experience with Atlanta to say if I personally agree or disagree.

Speaking as a white Twin Cities native who has been down in the Atlanta metro now for almost four years, I can agree with the above.

While there are many areas in the Atlanta metro (like the one I live in) where a mix of black, white, and other races live, there are MANY subdivisions and even suburbs which are mostly one color or the other, and churches seem to be highly segregated by color down here.

I've also had entire areas of the metro pointed out to me as places to avoid while house hunting even though driving through those areas showed them to be fairly nice (one of them was down just north of Camp Creek Parkway OTP if anyone cares), and I found out later that the recommendation was made because most of the residents in that area were black.

I don't get it, really, but it's something I'm getting used to.

[Camden Northsider]

I work in the nonprofit industry (which is substantial in the metro area) and a very healthy percentage of top nonprofit executvies are women and persons of color. Similarly, it is an industry that very much values and appreciates diversity. Downsides: jobs in the field, on average, generally don't pay as high as corporate counterparts (although most will be better than retail/ customer service even at the entry level), and in the current economy there has not been a lot of growth. However, it might be something you want to check out for jobs in your area of experience - good website: www.mncn.org. Judging by your communication/ writing skills, I would think you wouldn't have a hard time finding a job here. Also check out www.minnesotaworks.net and www.indeed.com.

There are a lot of great areas in the Metro - many neighborhoods in the city of Minneapolis are very diverse and great places to live (St. Paul also has some nice areas). Truth be told there have been some issues with the Minneapolis Police Dept in recent years - there is a pending lawsuit within MPD regarding workplace discrimination against minority officers/ personnel; and I was recently at a forum for the community to discuss their experiences with MPD's internal affairs unit - some of the stories I heard were pretty jarring regarding MPD internal affairs/ officer behavior in largely minority neighborhoods, and I have personally witnessed officers behaving badly in a couple of these neighborhoods. The community has been pretty active in organizing against this and I believe that change is underway (largely because most people here won't tolerate any nonsense or discrimination). Similarly, I think the experience that you had in the Northern suburbs is probably pretty uncommon and that you would not encounter any issues as a professional woman in your thirties in any Mpls/ St. Paul neighborhood.

Hope this helps a little bit, good luck with your decision to move...IMO, Mpls is an awesome place to live.

[santos]

I have yet to live anywhere that there are not signs of racial disparity. White, Black, Mexican, Mung, etc. naturally congregate where they feel most comfortable. When I moved to NYC I asked the realtor to search Italian communities and that is where I rented. Felt very comfortable around persons I understood, giving me time to adjust to a new environment. Later on, I moved to a more diverse neighborhood that had the recreational activities I enjoyed, and was closer to my employment.

Most important piece of advice I can give you on moving to a new neighborhood: get the chip off your shoulder, if you have one. If you don't have one, take care that you don't grow one. Don't personalize, and don't push the stream. Relax.