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2. How does the older city parts of KC and STL compare to the older neighborhoods of Denver? Denver, in addition to the downtown area, has a whole bunch of other mini urban style business districts-- Cherry Creek, the area by Colorado Blvd/ CU Hospital, the DU area, Capitol Hill, Highlands, Platte Park, etc, and a ton of old city neighborhoods, with a redevelopment and condo construction boom going on right now. Plus a ton of urban parks-- Washington Park, City Park, Cheesman Park, Sloan's Lake, etc. Does KC or STL compare to this?
Saint Louis probably has more of these type of neighborhoods than KC does, just because it and the suburbs are older.
My advice is to rent a car so you can see more of the area than you can with Metrolink. You can go out to the Clayton, University City, Webster Groves, and Kirkwood areas and see beautiful tree-filled suburbs with nice preserved downtown areas. Clayton differs from the other three in that it is the county seat of St Louis county and has several high-rise office buildings and condos. University City has beautiful older brick housing and an area called the "Loop", which has a lot of eclectic stores, restaurants, and bars. It is close to the prestigious Washington University area.
Kirkwood and Webster are right next to each other. Each has nice downtown areas and beautiful tree-lined streets with charming older houses. And each has great public schools. But both are more family-oriented than the Central West End and other areas of St Louis is.
Within the city of St Louis you'll find several urban parks, both big (Forest Park, Tower Grove Park, Carondelet Park) and small.
Kansas City is the same way, pretty much. But those type of areas are almost exclusively in the city limits and not in the suburbs, which are newer than the ones in St Louis. Kansas City has much more green space and tree-lined boulevards than St Louis does.
ajf131, I usually agree with your posts, but this time, I must go with razzy. I think that KCMO wins the crown by a long shot. KC is growing much faster than Lou. In my humble opinion, KCMO is much nicer and cleaner. KC has the plaza. This is much nicer and upscale than anything I have ever seen in STL. KC city limits are spread out over further distance so all of the attractions are not in onle place like most of STL's are. I vote KCMO 110%
Thanks ajf and plains10. I'm sure you'll be hearing more from me in the future. Right now, both KC and STL are looking better than Phoenix. One quick question-- for both cities-- is it possible to fly in and tour either city without a car, or do really need to rent a car to see what each city is all about? For each city, how many days would you have to spend in each to really get an idea for each city's feel? Also, how do feel about UMKC and UMSL?
Rent a car for either place, is my advice. You see more that way. Spend two or three days at the minimum and dont take the interstates. Take the main roads with the occasional detour through a random neighborhood. You'll find KC easier to get around in than St Louis, because it has less traffic and more highways and boulevards.
ajf131, I usually agree with your posts, but this time, I must go with razzy. I think that KCMO wins the crown by a long shot. KC is growing much faster than Lou. In my humble opinion, KCMO is much nicer and cleaner. KC has the plaza. This is much nicer and upscale than anything I have ever seen in STL. KC city limits are spread out over further distance so all of the attractions are not in onle place like most of STL's are. I vote KCMO 110%
Agreed. When I envision the CWE of St Louis and the County Club Plaza area of KC, there is simply no comparison. KC's Plaza area wins by a mile. Its beautiful down there, and they take a lot of pride in that area.
I think that overall KC folks take a bit more pride in their city than St Louisans do with theirs.
BTW, just so you're aware, I don't actually live in Las Vegas. I'm from Denver and am currently living in Phoenix. I was considering moving to Las Vegas when I set up my account here, but after going there and taking a good look at the city, I've trashed that plan. Great place to visit, not a great place to live. I'm getting tired and bored of Phoenix, too-- so I'm looking at relocation after I graduate college. I might be changing my username soon, too. Hope you don't mind me milling you for questions, but I figure this is the right forum to ask. Probably better that the moderator moved it here to the MO forum:
1. Any thoughts on UMKC and UMSL as far as colleges go?
2. Are there evergreen trees planted in either city (pine trees, blue spruces, juniper bushes, etc)? I'm trying to picture how either city would look in the wintertime-- is it totally bleak and barren or is their some greenery? I love looking at white snow on green pine trees. Are winters usually grey skies?
3. What parts of Missouri (whether city or rural) are naturally forested?
4. Is Saint Louis considered more of a declining rustbelt city?
5. Hope this doesn't sound like an arrogant question, but are there any reasons why I might prefer Missouri over Colorado? Is there anything Missouri offers that I can't get in Colorado?
1. Any thoughts on UMKC and UMSL as far as colleges go?
UMKC has a nice campus, close to the Country Club Plaza area. UMSL is okay too but UMKC has the better campus and surroundings. Dont know much about the academics of either school. UMKC has both a law and a medical school, while UMSL seems like more of a place where kids from the area who screwed around in high school would go to. So I guess UMKC is superior there too.
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2. Are there evergreen trees planted in either city (pine trees, blue spruces, juniper bushes, etc)? I'm trying to picture how either city would look in the wintertime-- is it totally bleak and barren or is their some greenery? I love looking at white snow on green pine trees. Are winters usually grey skies?
There are evergreen trees all over Missouri. Many of the trees lose their leaves in the winter time, but the scenery isnt totally barren. St Louis probably has more trees in the area than KC does, but KC isnt like Wichita (or much of western Kansas - eastern Colorado) or Oklahoma City as it has plenty of trees also.
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3. What parts of Missouri (whether city or rural) are naturally forested?
There are many areas south of the Missouri River, particularly in the southeast and south central part of the state, that are naturally forested. Mark Twain National Forest is in that part of the state. Research indicates that Missouri is 30% forested. The northern 1/3rd of the state is mostly flat farmland and resembles Iowa. But the rest of the state is generally hilly and forested.
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4. Is Saint Louis considered more of a declining rustbelt city?
I think so, though not to the extent that places like Pittsburgh or Detroit are. Its an old, gritty city that used to be heavily reliant on manufacturing. KC is newer and seems more high-tech than St Louis.
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5. Hope this doesn't sound like an arrogant question, but are there any reasons why I might prefer Missouri over Colorado? Is there anything Missouri offers that I can't get in Colorado?
Well, we have forests, hiking, biking, float tripping, boating on large lakes, swimming, fishing, etc. Basically everything that Colorado has except the Rockies and snow-skiiing and the dramatic topography of western Colorado. We have Branson, Missouri, which is a big family entertainment area located in the Ozark Mountains. The southern part of the state, where the Ozarks are, offer beautiful scenery. We have Party Cove at Lake of the Ozarks, where people meet up and tie together boats and have a big rowdy party every summer weekend. We offer two big cities instead of one. We're closer to Chicago and other large Midwestern Cities, and closer to the coast than Colorado is. Colorado seems pretty isolated to me. We dont have the blizzards that Denver gets, but we do have hotter weather and tornadoes, which I'm pretty sure Denver does not get. We have more cities and highways than Colorado does, and more historical places. And we border 8 different states which are widely different from one another, making Missouri a melting pot of regions and cultures. We border Kentucky and Tennessee, but also border Nebraska and Iowa. The "Bootheel" region of Missouri, the extreme southeast part, is more like the deep south than the midwest. The northern part of Missouri is more like the upper midwest. The southwest part (Springfield area) is growing rapidly and has its own Ozark style culture. Kansas City is a "western" city while St Louis is more of an "eastern" city. In short Missouri is a melting pot moreso than Colorado is.
Saint Louis is the gateway to the West. Independence and West Port lay claim to any such fame from that side of the state. Just think, men like John Colter, Hugh Glass, Jedidiah Smith, James Clyman, Jim Bridger, etc all passed thru Saint Louis during the heyday of the fur trade. The American Fur building still stands downtown...that's very cool history!
The Cardinals are the kings of the National League and second only to the Yankess in World Series titles with 10. Wtih payers like Joe "Ducky" Medwick, Dizzie Dean, Rogers Hornsby, Stan the Man, Lou Brock, Red, Bob Gibson, Ozzie, etc. etc. they have
Did you know that the legendary Cy Young once pitched the Cardinals?
That Stan Musial is the considered the 5th best ALL time by SABR? That Hornsby is #9 on the list. Don't take my word for it...check it out.
KC has George Brett and the 1 World Series title we the Cards and Don "Dekinger" sp? gave them.
Saint Louis rules KC, always has, always will. And KC can't stand it! It's funny to hear them cry when the subject comes up. KC folks are very touchy on the topic!
Well, we have forests, hiking, biking, float tripping, boating on large lakes, swimming, fishing, etc. Basically everything that Colorado has except the Rockies and snow-skiiing and the dramatic topography of western Colorado. We have Branson, Missouri, which is a big family entertainment area located in the Ozark Mountains. The southern part of the state, where the Ozarks are, offer beautiful scenery. We have Party Cove at Lake of the Ozarks, where people meet up and tie together boats and have a big rowdy party every summer weekend. We offer two big cities instead of one. We're closer to Chicago and other large Midwestern Cities, and closer to the coast than Colorado is. Colorado seems pretty isolated to me. We dont have the blizzards that Denver gets, but we do have hotter weather and tornadoes, which I'm pretty sure Denver does not get. We have more cities and highways than Colorado does, and more historical places. And we border 8 different states which are widely different from one another, making Missouri a melting pot of regions and cultures. We border Kentucky and Tennessee, but also border Nebraska and Iowa. The "Bootheel" region of Missouri, the extreme southeast part, is more like the deep south than the midwest. The northern part of Missouri is more like the upper midwest. The southwest part (Springfield area) is growing rapidly and has its own Ozark style culture. Kansas City is a "western" city while St Louis is more of an "eastern" city. In short Missouri is a melting pot moreso than Colorado is.
I like what I'm hearing! Missouri sounds like a great place to explore. It sounds more varied and interesting than Kansas or Nebraska (the states everybody from CO makes fun of when they think of "out east"). It's just that everyone thinks I'm crazy for considering relocating to the midwest-- just trying to make sure I'm still partially sane.
Here's some more questions: Which city in Missouri is the most culturally diverse? And how do you pronounce "Missouri"-- I've heard some people say "MissourAH"-- is that how the locals say it?
I like what I'm hearing! Missouri sounds like a great place to explore. It sounds more varied and interesting than Kansas or Nebraska (the states everybody from CO makes fun of when they think of "out east"). It's just that everyone thinks I'm crazy for considering relocating to the midwest-- just trying to make sure I'm still partially sane.
Here's some more questions: Which city in Missouri is the most culturally diverse? And how do you pronounce "Missouri"-- I've heard some people say "MissourAH"-- is that how the locals say it?
Any large city like Kansas City and Saint Louis will be culturally diverse. Columbia is where Missouri University is and it is located in the middle of the state. Their is definitely good diversity there. However, many of the rural counties have very little in the way of diversity mainly because they lack good job growth and in-migration into those areas. Most people pronounce Missouri, MissourEE. Some people do pronounce it MissourAH as well.
Well, we have forests, hiking, biking, float tripping, boating on large lakes, swimming, fishing, etc. Basically everything that Colorado has except the Rockies and snow-skiiing and the dramatic topography of western Colorado. We have Branson, Missouri, which is a big family entertainment area located in the Ozark Mountains. The southern part of the state, where the Ozarks are, offer beautiful scenery. We have Party Cove at Lake of the Ozarks, where people meet up and tie together boats and have a big rowdy party every summer weekend. We offer two big cities instead of one. We're closer to Chicago and other large Midwestern Cities, and closer to the coast than Colorado is. Colorado seems pretty isolated to me. We dont have the blizzards that Denver gets, but we do have hotter weather and tornadoes, which I'm pretty sure Denver does not get. We have more cities and highways than Colorado does, and more historical places. And we border 8 different states which are widely different from one another, making Missouri a melting pot of regions and cultures. We border Kentucky and Tennessee, but also border Nebraska and Iowa. The "Bootheel" region of Missouri, the extreme southeast part, is more like the deep south than the midwest. The northern part of Missouri is more like the upper midwest. The southwest part (Springfield area) is growing rapidly and has its own Ozark style culture. Kansas City is a "western" city while St Louis is more of an "eastern" city. In short Missouri is a melting pot moreso than Colorado is.
Yes, Missouri has wonderful forests throughout most of the central and southern portions of the state. In northern Missouri most of the trees are concentrated around rivers and low lying areas. Southern Missouri tends to have more reservoirs and the rugged hilly terrain of the Ozarks. In terms of culture most of Missouri has very strong southern influences even though the residents claim to be in the Midwest. The southern influences are fairly strong in many areas of state along with Ozark influences. The summer is very long and warm and the winter season is not long at all with varying amounts of snow depending on the year. Northern Missouri is definitely not the Upper Midwest at all and even as a little dixie area in some counties. The Upper Midwest has large pine forests, lakes, and tons of snow during the winter and northern Missouri definitely does not have those features.
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