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In 1972 our state constitution was rewritten to include some pretty sweeping, progressive and far reaching environmental language.... we were the "the first" in the nation to include environmental considerations in our state constitution....
We Montanan's did this, Democrat and Republican alike.....
You see??... Here in Montana, we are Montanan's first, before we are Democrats and Republicans. We worked together in the late 60's and early 70's to come to terms with what folks from out of state had done to this state 100 years preceeding.
We were and are, good stewards of the land with an environmental flair long before these things ever came to light in California.
So you donate to the food bank? Good for you.... you should.... it is your moral obligation to do so..... And anybody can start a nonprofit agency.... just look at Missoula.... It's full of daisey-do-gooder non profit types........
Missoula has more non profit organizations than any other city in the nation... My opinion is such that says these non profits are more for tax evasion than they are about good works.... You can do a whole lot of hiding in Montana.
And as far as the Bitterroot?..... Oh Boy.... That place is "ruined beyond repair"....... and has been since 1989 easily.....
If anybody ever wants to know what's going to happen, or just what's going on in the Bitterroot these days (Missoula), all they have to do is turn a tired eye to Butte.... Butte was once a going concern.... but it went from being a place to "be", to being a place to "be from"...... Butte Montana was once the largest city in Montana, with a population of over 80,000.... Now look at it..... or not.... your choice.... You can't escape the facts at hand when considering boom towns...... Missoula is just one more of the latest of these.....
Explosive growth can be a dangerous thing... an economy cannot run successfully based on speculation and hype...... Missoula (The Bitterroot) is living life on the edge, just like Butte did many years back..... When Missoula falls, and it will, it will fall as hard as Butte did, and no one will want to be there afterwards.....
The pretenders will leave, just like they always do.... and life here will return to normal..... and, just like before...... we'll have a great big mess to clean up.
When Montana falls "out of favor" for the next best thing that comes along, all of the ones that brag about all of the good they are doing, will leave, without so much as a simple goodbye.... It's easy to be smart, intelligent, enlightened and bold when the economy is good..... but outside of the bubble, it's a whole 'nuther story.
We Montanan's are all of these things regardless of economy, because we take life as it comes to us.
Don't under estimate the sentiment about transplants in this state..... Don't be fooled into thinking it's (sentiment) not there, because it is....
Last edited by GiftShoppeGuy; 07-12-2007 at 08:20 PM..
So you donate to the food bank? Good for you.... you should.... it is your moral obligation to do so..... And anybody can start a nonprofit agency.... just look at Missoula.... It's full of daisey-do-gooder non profit types........
Missoula has more non profit organizations than any other city in the nation... My opinion is such that says these non profits are more for tax evasion than they are about good works.... You can do a whole lot of hiding in Montana.
..
What are you talking about? Who are you talking to? Are you for or against public service? I'm very confused
And JimJ. You are right. I should not have insulted your spelling. But I have a right to be bothered by the rampant development here. I know there are a lot of good people moving here from out of state. There's just too dang MANY of them, that's all. And it really bugs me, right or wrong.
And the ones with the Mega Bucks who want to shut the rest of us out? They really scare me, and they should scare you too. You know the ones... the ones with the Private River and the 10K sq. foot home at the base of their Own Mountain. THOSE are the ones who bug me the most. NOT you, JimJ. You are okay.
I am sorry to whom I have offended, but only if you are just an ordinary Joe!!
If you think you are gonna fence me off a public road or keep me outta the public waterways.... WATCH OUT!!
So maid, it may be a scary thought but we are closer together in our thoughts than you think. I agree that the land gluttony here is getting out of hand and the fencing off forests,rivers and big tracts of land gets my blood boiling. As for environmental laws, what happened? I was unaware that Montana passed such legislation which I am sure was (at the time) advanced but the question remains, what happened since? I have been in the hazmat profession and have seen what strip mines and leech mines and paper mills etc can do to the surrounding environment but they are allowed to continue. This is not done by you and me but by the idiots we elect. If the government were doing the job they were elected to do there would not be so many superfund sites across the nation (not just here).
I just get tired of all the vitriol and venom being directed at one group of people. I just spoke with our realtor and asked him where the majority of people are coming from and he said "not from CA as much anymore, they are coming from CO,WA,ID,OR and Fl more anywhere else. Yes, I'm born and raised in CA (northern) but have lived all over the states and some of it rural and I have never seen the complete opposites in areas as I do here. We now have an economy here that is two tiered. You have the have's and have nots. Pretty much no middle class here anymore and screaming about transplants or redistributing wealth will not change it.
While the pols here were real good years ago (from what I hear and read) they seem to be all of the same party nowdays hence demicans and republicrats asking what can I do for me, not what should I do for my public.
I don't care what they promise anymore, one year in DC or Helena and all that is forgotten from what I have seen so far. Where have the good pols gone? As for the doom and gloom predictions that are being thrown about, we better all hope that they don't happen. Everyone may think they are insulated from the doom and gloom but even the bum on the street will be affected if there is a "bust" as some are predicting. Most everyone is tied to the economy in one way or another and if it's bad it does affect everyone to one degree or another unless you ride horses and not drive and owe no one money and don't have to buy anything including power......
Well, I can say that if the environmental laws were NOT in place, things would be much worse than they are around here. That said, we have to accept the fact that there is a lot of pressure on local politicians to provide the means for jobs for their constituents. The traditional occupations for the working man of this state are not environmentally friendly, as we well know.
Even cattle ranching can take a toll on the land if good land management practices are not used.
During every legislative session in Helena, politicians introduce bills that in essence are designed to erode some of the foundations of the environmental protection laws. Many of these politicians introducing the bills come from counties in the Eastern and Hi-line areas, areas where unemployment is very high. Most of these bills fail, but some get through.
I guess that is the only explanation I can come up with. We are #45 or so on the state rankings list for per capita personal income. Only Utah, New Mexico, West Virginia, Louisiana and Mississippi rank lower in per capita income, so when it comes to creating jobs... people in depressed areas will vote for the people who will try to create industry and employment.
And when you have millionaires and even BILLIONAIRES streaming into the state and subsequently raising the property taxes for all of us, you get a bad mixture.
You are very right about the two-tiered class system. Most ordinary people don't live here because of the employment opportunities, we stay because of the quality of life... which is quickly going the way of the dodo bird!!
And as for that stinkin' pulp mill in Missoula.... that SHOULD be illegal. It was closed down for years, you know.
Last edited by maid.in.montana; 07-12-2007 at 11:35 PM..
uh oh, I forgot to say that a lot of the "local politicians", in... um... CERTAIN LOCALES, are most likely influenced by BIG MONEY out-of-state rapists and pillagers.... those unethical elitists who think the lowly natives, (both white and red and chinese and 'other'), don't deserve to enjoy this place too.
Ooh, I just found this forum. I am a fourth-generation Montanan. My great-great grandparents homesteaded up near Troy over a hundred years ago. I have deep roots in this state and let me tell me you... I resent Californians VERY much. Sorry, nothing personal.
Let's take a good look at the Bitterroot Valley, for instance. WHAT? Oh yeah. It is IMPOSSIBLE to take a GOOD LOOK at the the Bitterroot Valley or the Bitterroot Range anymore because the Valley is covered in a thick layer of disgusting SMOG brought about by The Evil Transplanted Californicators' SUV's.
One measly Californian I could probably handle. Californians EN MASSE is another story entirely. We snarkily refer to the Bitterroot Valley as "Little California" now. It's pathetic. So, if you are a Californian and want to move here, please move to the Bitterroot Valley!!! It's already ruined and you will feel right at home!
With Californians came the 5-Acre Buffalo Ranches. We have literally thousands of Horse Whisperers among us now as well. We have espresso. We have Home Depot. We have Activists. We can't even see the dang MOUNTAINS anymore, but who cares? Let's just go shopping at Pier 1 instead!! Or... let's have a meeting to try change something that doesn't need changing! Let's also be contradictory: we will drive SUV's but claim to be Environmentalists.
The LA Smog (literally and figuratively) is spreading Northward to my beloved state and it really makes me angry. You can come visit for awhile, but then PLEASE, go home. And yes, there are a LOT of native Montanans who feel the way I do. LOTS and LOTS and LOTS. But no.... we won't tell that to your face unless you try to get us to sign a petition for your Weird Cause.
Like I said, the Bitterroot would be the place to go! And may I make a dire prediction, here and now? You know all those huge trophy homes built up those wooded canyons? Most of them are gonna burn when the next Big One hits. The hillsides are orange with dead beetle-infested trees. It's only a matter of time before that unhealthy forest burns again and burns hot and FAST. The Forest Service will not save your home. They are not God.
Will the Bitterroot Valley Realtors tell you this? Heck no! They will sell you that wooded lot with the stunning mountain views for BIG BUCKS. They will sell you those Stars in Your Eyes.
Ain't it the truth! You wanna-be Montanans all seem to have that same Deer-In-the-Headlight Starry Eyed Syndrome. Sheesh. Truly, no offense, but it is SO OBVIOUS. Well, the next bad fire season oughta flush a few of you out, that's for sure! Heh heh. I am prepared. ARE YOU? Looks like this summer is heating up to be a bad one!!!
Hurray for telling it like it is! I agree with you and so do many other Montanans.
Now for the bad news. I've posted similar comments and and really caught heck for it on this forum because, as you will find out soon enough, this forum is quite biased toward encouraging people from other states to move here and helping them feel supported about moving here. They don't want the truth. And there are also a number of self interested folks on this forum trying to conduct some business--real estate people, for one example that will also take exception to what you've said. I know you didn't attack anyone personally, you just expressed your resentment and frustration but believe me, people will take your words as a personal attack and then they WILL attack you personally. When that happens, go talk to some locals about it because you know they feel the same way and just try to remember you are not alone in your thoughts or feelings. You care about your home and it shows. There is nothing wrong with trying to maintain a quality of life here and speaking out against that which threatens it.
Heh heh..... they can't really attack me personally unless they can physically take a swing at me, and they can't do that! They don't even KNOW me.
Of course people like you and me are here to burst the 'fantasy bubble' of so many who would relocate here. I could never understand why so many people dream of moving to Montana. Honestly! There are other places with beautiful scenery. Washington State for one. That would be a much better place for these wanna-be mountain-dweller types to move to, wouldn't it??
I really couldn't care less if people have a problem with what I say. I tell it like it is. You and I know that I speak the truth!! And so do countless other native Montanans who would never venture to a forum like this... I stumbled upon this forum by accident, but I am here NOW! Bwa-haa-haa-haaaaaa!!!!! <<<<EVIL LAUGHTER>>>>>
And as far as the self-serving realtor I see here: the rules of this forum say "NO ADVERTISING". I am sure I saw that somewhere! Any realtor who would "advertise" on this forum is obviously unethical and NOBODY should be stupid enough to take that realtor seriously! Unethical realtors are all over the place in Montana, are they not?? Unethical realtors are part of the HUGE problem we are having in this state.
Last edited by maid.in.montana; 07-13-2007 at 09:12 AM..
Reason: couple of mistakes.
I just get tired of all the vitriol and venom being directed at one group of people. I just spoke with our realtor and asked him where the majority of people are coming from and he said "not from CA as much anymore, they are coming from CO,WA,ID,OR and Fl more anywhere else. ......
That's kinda the feeling I get from reading through posts on here. I don't see to many Californians looking to come here. I personally have talked to a lot of folks here, and no one I know is even giving any kind of thought to moving to Montana....except me...and now I am beginning to second guess myself on that. That'a one reason why I have not been spending as much time here (MT forum) as I used to. I don't want to move somewhere, where I will be hated for being from CA, even though, I presonally have not done anything wrong.
Just a thought: For the most part, I think the folks that come to this site, are the type you would want to live in your state. They are the type of people that research things, and "usually" generally care about the area they are looking to move to. It's the ones with more money, than sense, that you need to be careful of. Unfortunately those are the people you will not be able to reach through this forum
I will be leaving on a road trip one week from today to go check out ID. I am hoping to drive through the MT area on my way home. It will likely be through the BV area. Guess I'll have to look for myself to see how bad it is.
NO wonder people from CAL are starting to thin out as far as relocating here.
We are already saturated with Californians!!
I understand how you might take my sentiments personally. But I am not really attacking anyone personally. I am attacking the THOUGHT of another smog-producing person arriving here in a starry-eyed frame of mind... ALL GAGA over the view but completely blind to reality. All I see is another potential wacky wanna-be fly-fisher/horse-whisperer/mountain-man who has no clue what he is really getting himself into.
I totally understand people wanting a better life. Just PLEASE don't think you will find it here. Sure, people who come here "care" about the place. But look what they did to the Bitterroot Valley. They "accidentally" LOVED it to DEATH!!!!!!!!
If I met you on the street in your town in CAL, I would probably think you are very nice. But you gotta understand where I am coming from and where people like Jenzebel are coming from.
Enough is ENOUGH already!
Now we gotta deal with Floridians? GAH!!!!! That's pretty scary too.
jimj the truth hurts but true to 1984 form let's ban this horrible truth speaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by maid.in.montana
Ooh, I just found this forum. I am a fourth-generation Montanan. My great-great grandparents homesteaded up near Troy over a hundred years ago. I have deep roots in this state and let me tell me you... I resent Californians VERY much. Sorry, nothing personal.
Let's take a good look at the Bitterroot Valley, for instance. WHAT? Oh yeah. It is IMPOSSIBLE to take a GOOD LOOK at the the Bitterroot Valley or the Bitterroot Range anymore because the Valley is covered in a thick layer of disgusting SMOG brought about by The Evil Transplanted Californicators' SUV's.
One measly Californian I could probably handle. Californians EN MASSE is another story entirely. We snarkily refer to the Bitterroot Valley as "Little California" now. It's pathetic. So, if you are a Californian and want to move here, please move to the Bitterroot Valley!!! It's already ruined and you will feel right at home!
With Californians came the 5-Acre Buffalo Ranches. We have literally thousands of Horse Whisperers among us now as well. We have espresso. We have Home Depot. We have Activists. We can't even see the dang MOUNTAINS anymore, but who cares? Let's just go shopping at Pier 1 instead!! Or... let's have a meeting to try change something that doesn't need changing! Let's also be contradictory: we will drive SUV's but claim to be Environmentalists.
The LA Smog (literally and figuratively) is spreading Northward to my beloved state and it really makes me angry. You can come visit for awhile, but then PLEASE, go home. And yes, there are a LOT of native Montanans who feel the way I do. LOTS and LOTS and LOTS. But no.... we won't tell that to your face unless you try to get us to sign a petition for your Weird Cause.
Like I said, the Bitterroot would be the place to go! And may I make a dire prediction, here and now? You know all those huge trophy homes built up those wooded canyons? Most of them are gonna burn when the next Big One hits. The hillsides are orange with dead beetle-infested trees. It's only a matter of time before that unhealthy forest burns again and burns hot and FAST. The Forest Service will not save your home. They are not God.
Will the Bitterroot Valley Realtors tell you this? Heck no! They will sell you that wooded lot with the stunning mountain views for BIG BUCKS. They will sell you those Stars in Your Eyes.
Ain't it the truth! You wanna-be Montanans all seem to have that same Deer-In-the-Headlight Starry Eyed Syndrome. Sheesh. Truly, no offense, but it is SO OBVIOUS. Well, the next bad fire season oughta flush a few of you out, that's for sure! Heh heh. I am prepared. ARE YOU? Looks like this summer is heating up to be a bad one!!!
The same thing happened to Vermont, now I hear stories about ol' Vermonters moving to Alaska for christ sakes, Alaska! I wonder if Californians are cursed in life & wherever they go, the curse follow's 'em. Am I a troll now cause I speak the hurtful truth, ohh shame on me, let's slap my butt singapore style.
Last edited by paullicker; 07-13-2007 at 10:34 AM..
Reason: wrong lang. true to form 1984 style
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jimj the truth hurts but true to 1984 form let's ban this horrible truth speaker
