Still confused over stimulus.. (mortgages, loans, employment)

[Timberwolf232]

I still don't get it. We spend 800 some Billion bucks to bail out banks and industries that had bad business practices...

For 300 Million we could have given every citizen of the US a million dollars.

I understand that that would screw up inflation big time, but it seems to me like it would be a better idea to put the money in the hands of the people who are going to spend it and stimulate industry.

Say the fed sent a check to every head of household taxpayer for 100K. Loans would be paid, helping the banks... Cars would be bought, helping out the auto industry.. etc and so on..

The federal government is getting way out of line. We need fire these folks (after all they do work for the American people.) eliminate the electoral college, and give the power back to the States and Localities.

[Reziac]

What's worse, now we and our children and grandchildren will have to pay back the money borrowed for this "stimulus" -- even at minimal interest rates, every dollar used (borrowed) means THREE dollars that have to be paid back.

And remember, about 75% of every dollar that passes through a gov't agency goes to pay people who work in that agency. That is essentially money that is lost to other uses.

I have a better idea. Let us keep our tax dollars and use them how we need to.

I also agree with those (too few) states who said NO to the stimulus money, because it is mandated for creation and expansion of various programs -- where will the money come from to run those programs after the stimulus money runs out? either the new/expanded programs have to be closed down/shrunk back to original size, OR yet another "stimulus" package has to be borrowed from the future. Either way, you're further in the hole than you started.

Here's a thought: what if Congress and the office of President (and all their associated aides and lobbyists) were eliminated entirely, and the Federal gov't was run by the state governors instead? I know this isn't a practical suggestion, but let's use it as a starting point. Discuss!

[T-310]

Somehow I don't feel very "stimulated".

[Reziac]

For the first time ever federal aid now funds the majority of state government spending:

Federal aid is top revenue for states - USATODAY.com

And just where exactly did that federal aid come from in the first place??

That's right -- from the states. From taxpayers. Filtered through gov't hands so that about 75% of it is lost (used to fund that bureaucracy).

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by Reziac

What's worse, now we and our children and grandchildren will have to pay back the money borrowed for this "stimulus" -- even at minimal interest rates, every dollar used (borrowed) means THREE dollars that have to be paid back.

And remember, about 75% of every dollar that passes through a gov't agency goes to pay people who work in that agency. That is essentially money that is lost to other uses.

I have a better idea. Let us keep our tax dollars and use them how we need to.

I also agree with those (too few) states who said NO to the stimulus money, because it is mandated for creation and expansion of various programs -- where will the money come from to run those programs after the stimulus money runs out? either the new/expanded programs have to be closed down/shrunk back to original size, OR yet another "stimulus" package has to be borrowed from the future. Either way, you're further in the hole than you started.

Here's a thought: what if Congress and the office of President (and all their associated aides and lobbyists) were eliminated entirely, and the Federal gov't was run by the state governors instead? I know this isn't a practical suggestion, but let's use it as a starting point. Discuss!

That is a really good idea. So long as the power was split equally among the 50 governors and the governors themselves resided in the states they represent, only going to Washington for discussions and votes on a limited basis.

I think people would feel more "represented" then we do now, and a lot of problems would be worked out better than they are now.

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

I still don't get it. We spend 800 some Billion bucks to bail out banks and industries that had bad business practices...

For 300 Million we could have given every citizen of the US a million dollars.

I understand that that would screw up inflation big time, but it seems to me like it would be a better idea to put the money in the hands of the people who are going to spend it and stimulate industry.

Say the fed sent a check to every head of household taxpayer for 100K. Loans would be paid, helping the banks... Cars would be bought, helping out the auto industry.. etc and so on..

The federal government is getting way out of line. We need fire these folks (after all they do work for the American people.) eliminate the electoral college, and give the power back to the States and Localities.

I see it like you. Instead of sticking up for the banking industry FIRST and letting everything else fall into place on it's own around it, why not invest the money into TRUE GDP industry FIRST and let the banking industry fall into place around it which it eventually would do ? Let the over levered banks go belly up and get sold off to smaller healthy banks and move forward with a foundation of sort instead of bankrupting a huge chunk of small business in the US while saving worthless banks. They don't contribute to TRUE GDP !

Makes more sense to me and doesn't let the economy slam on the brakes as it has done. AND... it wouldn't have cost near as much and I don't think it would have affected inflation either if the Fed Res executed a plan to get those funds back out of the system in a constructive way within a few years !

[AndersonRM]

For $300,000,000.00 we could have given every American $1.00

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by AndersonRM

For $300,000,000.00 we could have given every American $1.00

Heh Heh... You are absolutely right. Glad someone caught that!

But for 850 billion, we could give every American something around $2300. I think even that would help jump start things faster then bailing out the banks.

If they gave every head of household taxpayer something like 70K I think it would have been somewhere around the same amount of money as the bailout. I'm not sure how many of us really pay taxes, but I think HOH taxpayers account for somewhere around a little under 1/4 of the population. (This is just based on hearsay, so don't hold me too it..)

What do you guys think?

I like what Stephen_K said about putting it into true GDP industry, vs the banks that just pulled a huge one over on everyone with the crummy things that they have been doing with mortgages and loans.

[Reziac]

Some interesting points from an article pubbed last December:

Stupid Stimulus or Sensible Stimulus? | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels FOREIGN WORKERS ALLOWED IN 2008

744,531 Green cards granted to people of working age (20-64)
912,735 Employment Authorizations issued by U.S. federal government
1,657,266 New foreign workers added to the U.S.A. annually

How many unemployed Americans would be working if there weren't 1.6 million legal foreign workers newly arrived in the U.S.?? Remember, the legal immigrant workers generally take jobs that Americans would otherwise do (unlike illegals, who take jobs American kids used to do).

[FiveHorses]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

I'm not sure how many of us really pay taxes, but I think HOH taxpayers account for somewhere around a little under 1/4 of the population. (This is just based on hearsay, so don't hold me too it..)

For federal income tax, the latest stat I read gave the figure as 2% of the American population making up 69% of the total income tax payments made to Washington.