Montana relocation: resentment toward newcomers (Missoula, Bozeman: attorney, transfer, law school)

[gfunkerror]

Originally Posted by KillerK

I'm in mt. saphire's boat. I might be moving to rural Montana for a job. I'm in no way wealthy, and even if I wanted to "Change" things (I don't) I couldn't anyway. I would do my best to integrate into the community. I want to move to Montana because it's Montana, not because I want to go there and turn it into something else. I want to go there to adopt the Montanan way of life, not just to appreciate the pretty mountains or whatever and then try to live the same way I did back East.

Good luck! Let us know how it is going. I think like the OP, others may have made up their minds about you before you go. So just be yourself. And make yourself at home. Its as much as yours as theirs.

(just don't tell them that. I'll bet they will hate that)

[missmaggieva]

I lived in Montana for a job which lasted about 4 years. I met some really nice people whom I still stay in touch with. I grew up in a rural area so the isolation didn't bother me very much. However, the whole "don't steal my ice cream" attitude was so ridiculous. People don't move there to steal your jobs or anything else for that matter. Sometimes businesses have to look out of state for someone qualified -- so stealing opportunities that weren't yours in the first place is ridiculous, or you would have been hired. Also, Montana is in the US still and as a citizen anyone has the the right to buy property free and clear of anyone's opinion, this is a fundamental right. The people "with money" who develop in Montana have the money to put people to work as well, but choose to isolate themselves from the hostility... which in turn they probably buy up land and take residence somewhere else... or you'll get rich people who aren't looking for work, are in seek of an eternal vacation, and will never seek work as trust fund babies. These are the type of people Montana attract with their anti-social anti-business attitude & this directly reflects on the way you view outsiders... you created this situation, now this is what you got... bipolar society of elite rich and dirt poor. These people who don't work are driving up the prices, not the people who could have provided opportunities. Realize where your "outsider hostility" got you. This is much worse than a big business moving in, providing you opportunities to support your families. Most of the people I met with children there where on welfare. Funny how they can be so opinionated about other Americans but don't have a problems allowing the tax payer to feed and house them.

[jasper12]

I am not from around here....but no one is mean to me....

[CosmicWizard]

jasper12 wrote:

I am not from around here....but no one is mean to me....

True for me too. I've live most of my life hundreds and even thousands of miles from my birth location and no one in any of those foreign places ever singled me out as an intruder...at least not to my face. Whatever may have been said behind my back is none of my business anyway. It would be the cowardly act of an insecure person.

[MikeyMike11]

I just wanted to point out, that as a kid growing up in New York, I was surrounded by trees, parklands, and had awesome clean beaches (1980s-1990s), and by the time I was in high school, that was all gone and paved over, and the beaches were filled with garbage. I left home at 18 and ended up in Bozeman when I was 24. This is happening everywhere, and Montana is on the tail end of it. When I worked in Alaska, they were tearing up the tundra to build subdivisions outside of Palmer. They aren't making any more land, but making a lot more people. This isn't going to stop, unless you "natives" stop selling your ranches. No one is moving in and taking your land... Why not take over a city council meeting with 5 or 6 people, threaten to vote out whomever you wish, and then have a representative initiate some laws which can protect the land and your way of life? The city and county set your tax rates that you guys are complaining about. Those people are your neighbors, knock on their door with some brownies.

To the person commenting on Walmart... Who voted for it? Hold these people accountable. You probably know where they live, so stop by their house and explain your issues. That is the advantage of being in a small town. Having done work in Hamilton, I know it's not that big.

Anyway, I also have never met anyone who hates out of staters in real life, only on the internet. Bozeman is filled with out of staters, but they can't last more than a few winters out here. I am here to stay, and most of my "native" Montana friends see me as their own. All this talk about out of staters gets old... I am by definition an out of stater, and no one I know acts like these isolated incidents you guys bring up. I don't vouch for Californians on here, but the middle class, young and middle aged Americans moving to Montana have the utmost respect for people living here. I don't think I am better than anyone else...

So just to have you know, a lot of my friends are from out of state as well, and we cherish the mountains and public lands here, and would never shut off access like some people mentioned earlier. Just the fact that it happens, should reflect on those individuals, not all out of staters. We are struggling just like you guys, and have to find jobs pay these outrageous taxes also, etc.

I hate to see all the development, but it is solely in your hands people, not some "out of stater". Don't talk to the developer, or the bank, if you are having problems financing the farm or ranch next year, use a co-op for a loan. Don't sell the family ranch, vote (but more importantly vote out), and set legislation which limits the type and nature of construction going on, and grandfathers in a set tax rate for a generation. It's really that simple, although it takes time. The state and Fed will honor your wishes as long there are no issues with eminent domain. This out of stater is with you on all these fronts... I do think there are people driving up prices and land values right now, forcing a lot of people (including myself) into renting, which is also expensive. It all stems from development, controlled by large banks and corporations, not from normal people from whatever state.

[CosmicWizard]

Out-of-state bashing is quite popular within a small circle of internet posters here in Colorado. In real life, I have yet to meet anyone get on my case face to face. The biggest issue is that of higher real estate costs. They like to blame the out-of-state newcomers for driving up real estate prices, conveniently turning a blind eye to the greedy natives who gladly accepted the inflated offers for their properties. Higher real estate prices are the result of buyers AND sellers. It's always a two way street.

[jazzlover]

I'm one of the people that Cosmic refers to in his post above. Unfortunately, the nature of "transplants" moving to many Rocky Mountain states has really changed in the last few decades. The kind of transplants that can really ruin a place like Montana, Wyoming, etc.--I exclude Colorado because the damage has pretty much already been done there--are mostly "suburban refugees" from places like California that move into a place like Montana in an attempt to escape the overpopulation, high living costs, environmental destruction and phoniness of those metro areas from which they flee. The big problem with most of them is that they are like a drug addict that wants to "clean up" but is too weak to shake his addiction. So, they wind up turning the place to where they relocate into exactly what they left. They decry traffic and sprawl, but then live in subdivisions that turn the rural areas that they infest into the same sprawl that they professed to hate. They profess to hate prententiousness and phoniness, but then proceed to build McMansions (that they may not really even be able to afford) in the rural areas where they settle. They think, because they lived in "X" place (that was so "enlightened" that the transplant was desperate to leave it) that they know better what works in their selected new commnunity than people who have lived for generations in the place that they relocate to. They want to live in rural agricultural areas, but soon are complaining about the odors or dust from farms and ranches. Worse yet, the rural subdivisions that they inhabit eat up prime ag land, and that, after awhile, begins to erode the agricultural economy that they profess to love. After the transplants help to cripple the agricultural economy of an area, even old line ag families may have to sell their farms or ranches to economically survive, and the developers who want to devour more land to sell to the "transplants" are there, checkbook in hand. It's like a cancer. Another issue is the transplants children. Many parents leave metro areas to get their children away from the gang and drug culture found in many of those areas. Unfortunately, the parents often can't see or don't want to see that their kids have already been sucked into that culture--and then those kids help spread it to the rural areas when they move there.

Often, not always but often, some of the worst offenders in the "transplant" crowd are the "trust-funders" or affluent retirees who don't have to rely on the local economy for their livelihood. They don't care if the schools aren't decent (and they don't want to pay taxes for them), they don't want to pay for public services (unless the service benefits them), they don't care if there aren't any decent jobs in the local economy, they don't care if the children of the long-time residents can't find jobs locally or can't afford to stay in their own community, they want all kinds of "amenities" for their own amusement (golf courses, rec centers, etc.) and like it even better if they can con the local taxpayers into building and subsidizing it for them, they want all kinds of regulations to tell people what they can and can't do or can and can't have in the community--unless, of course, those rules would apply to them.

Not all people who move to a new area are like that, but enough are that it increasingly leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of many long-time residents. Cosmic wants to believe that, because many local folks are polite enough not to speak of such disdain to transplants face-to-face, it must mean that such disdain doesn't exist. He's wrong about that.

[flyingcat2k]

+1 Jazzlover

[CosmicWizard]

Jazzlover wrote: Not all people who move to a new area are like that, but enough are that it increasingly leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of many long-time residents. Cosmic wants to believe that, because many local folks are polite enough not to speak of such disdain to transplants face-to-face, it must mean that such disdain doesn't exist. He's wrong about that.

Those left with a bitter taste are only hurting themselves. Give your well being a BIG boost and let it go. Get over it. Wether you are bitter or not, the things that you are bitter about are likely to continue anyway.

I don't know how you jumped from my statement, I have yet to meet anyone get on my case face to face. to saying that, Cosmic wants to believe that, because many local folks are polite enough not to speak of such disdain to transplants face-to-face, it must mean that such disdain doesn't exist. You are putting your words into my mouth. All I said was that I haven't met anyone.....

As for the politeness if/when feeling disdainful...then it's just a facade, covering up an unwillingness to be real.

[Threerun]

I have not felt that 'newcomer attitude' resentment. But then again I'm from WV. I'm kinda a hillbilly. I don't want Bozeman's elite stores. I hate Colorado now.

I just want to work, hunt, hike and fish. I don't need much. I have everything that I could ever want in my life and I don't need a 4,000 sq ft home to get it. I'm satisfied.