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I lived in a Great Falls for two years. My son still lives there. I didn't like it and so I left. My son did and so he stayed.
I think that without being angry, or posting a lot of negatives, it's easy enough to say "to each their own".
The OP can make his mind up to leave if he doesn't like it. It doesn't serve any purpose to run each other down when you are comparing apples and oranges.
As far as Great Falls goes.........................I don't really blame you for leaving there, if I'd started out there in Montana, I'd probably would have left too. As far as apples and oranges.......well, that can be said about every place in the country, as they can be as different as, say...............apples and oranges. It may be easy, and it may be simple, but unless you're in it for the wages, which in Montana's case, you're out in the cold for good wages compared to most of the country, it is exactly that, 'To each his own'! If you like it, and are prepared to live with your decision, then go for it. Some, can live with less of everything, some, just have to have a lot, some, are somewhere in between. In Montana, the wages are less, therefore, you, in many cases, have to make do with less, and again, if you are prepared for that, and know what you're getting into, they just do it. Sometimes, just the quality of life, means more than money. But again, the bottom line is: 'To each his own'!
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Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan
Or you could look at it this way.....the people living in MT pre-1990 feel the same way about the latest invasion of outsiders as did the people living in montana pre-1890. If you get my point. Which you don't seem to be doing, mostly because you are blinded by your own self interest.
I think that's the precise point others are making. Truth is, you're no more entitled to be here than someone who has lived here a day. I understand the frustration but your bitterness will only give you an ulcer and won't change things
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NEVER said I was more entitled....I'm just saying what I'm saying......to sum it up again.....to many people in the row boat will tip it over, and no one has any more right to be in the boat than any one else but the last people in are the ones causing the problems....it's that simple
tigergal wrote:
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So, everyone who moves into your state is causing a hardship by doing so? Does this include those who move to your state to accept jobs that have been available for 6 months (that apparently no one in Montana wants)? Would you rather these openings go unfilled?
First off, I find it VERY hard to believie they can't find someone locally to fill the position. Missoula is the kind of place that you post a job and there is a line a mile long outside your door in the morning, with overly quaified people, which leads to the next problem, the employers then become overly selective and picky...I've seen that happen. There is also a reluctance on the part of employers to hire within company even when there are qualified personal because of personal issues, for fear of upseting the people who don't get the job, so they try to get a complete stranger, seen that too, etc, etc, etc,.......
And actually I would rather see the job go unfilled, eventually the employer will have to settle on hiring someone that already lives here, and or train/school a present employee.
Yes, at this point and time in Montana everyone that moves here, in some small or large part is putting a hardship on the local peoples, if for no reason than just the demands they place on infrustructure, ask some of the people around Missoula what they think about the town imposing the city sewer system on them...stand back after you ask though, and that's just one issue.
Bashful wrote: - with respect to growth
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So, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other, I guess.
I see it as more like 1 of 1 and 11 of the other, with the 11 being the down side.
I don't see much good at all in growth, I could but I won't now, because I've done it before, put down a big long list of all the negative affects of growth......I'm really hard pressed to find any good in it....."Jobs" you say....yea mostly lots of cheap ones, and more people come in to fill them, so what's the point, It was actually much more affordable to live here before all the growth and so called new jobs came to town. Not to mention less crime and the hiways were a lot less crowded and safer, better service in the un-crowded "LOCAL" stores and health care facilities, we use to have truely affordable housing, a modest salary would get you a modest house, that is a distant dream now, need I go one...............
So come on keep piling in, things can only get........get....get worse, worse is all they are going to get, that is the direction things have been going in and that is the direction they will continueto go, should I thank you now or later....
And nope I don't have any more right to live here than any one.....you've got every right to come up here and crowd us out of the very place we tried so hard to make home for all these years, you got every right to come here, and some of us have got every right to resent it.
What is it about Montana that you can't find somewhere else ? Is the only place in the world that will make you happy ? Idaho, washington, south dakota, maine, they are all beautiful places and some alot cheaper and less congested than around here. Do use both a favor.....spread out a bit and we'll all be happier, and I really do wish you well in your quest for a nice place to live, just do it somewheres else.
NEVER said I was more entitled....I'm just saying what I'm saying......to sum it up again.....to many people in the row boat will tip it over, and no one has any more right to be in the boat than any one else but the last people in are the ones causing the problems....it's that simple
I guess my response would be, the boat isn't tipping over. The boat is changing into a different boat. You can enjoy the ride or jump out.
Your comments about preferring to see jobs stay unfilled (a health care job no less) until it's filled with a local, who may not even be especially qualified, leads me to believe you do not have the best interests of your state at heart at all and are really just a curmudgeon at all costs.
Finally, your comments asking people to just move (!!!) are absurd. Frankly, sounds like a childish baby to me. Also, you're delusional if you think those places are less congested and less expensive than Montana. You're just making things up.
And actually I would rather see the job go unfilled, eventually the employer will have to settle on hiring someone that already lives here, and or train/school a present employee.
Wow. That's not only incredibly sad, but interesting. From the time I've spent in Montana, I've always come to see that the people were more interested in the person you were and what you had to offer than what your previous driver's license had on it. It sounds like you're championing mediocrity over excellence, which would contradict the usual attitude I have observed among Montana residents. I have to say that I've never heard anyone who thought that "settling" was a grand idea on hiring anything above entry-level positions. You are aware, I'm sure, that there are a plethora of careers for which one can not be dragged off the street, giving three easy lessons and they are equipped to perform the job not only adequately, but well?
Disclaimer: I am sure that there are Montana people who would be able to do the jobs of which I speak, but if they are not interested in the position, they can not be forced to take the job. The position is also one of the nature in which many years of experience are required, so hiring someone whose skills are outside of the job description would not be feasible, particularly when one is dealing with JCAHO and HIPPA requirements.
Tigergal, dangerousdan.......
Don't misconstrew what I said......what I'm saying is that I want to see the local Montanans get the jobs, the jobs they keep promising we are going to get, the jobs they (politicians mostly) keep telling us they want to and are creating for us montanans.
Second, there are many many many smart and highy educated people already living here, that with some minimal training or education could easliy fill those jobs, before hiring people from out of state.......In my entire career, spanning education, engineering, research, and swinging a chainsaw, I've yet to see a job opening that a person already inhouse or localy hired could not have done, so you might call this a person pevee of mine, I will make except it the job opening is in the area of ..."Brain Surgeon" Most jobs simpley disqualify many people with silly educational requirements, when the people have more than enough skills to fill the job, but don't have the sheepskin. And I speak from personal experience, being overly educated myself.
dangersous dan..........
THE ROWBOAT IS TIPPING OVER, if it wasn't you wouldn't be hearing from lots of folks besides myself saying what a change has befallen our state.
Once again, to repeat myself, you don't want to except the facts because they make you uncomfortable, I understand that, and I sympathize with you even thought you don't do the like.
The changes that I see here in Montana are indeed rather disturbing.
Growth is and can be a good thing, given in moderation.
But the growth experienced of late in Western Montana is criminal.
Yes, I was born here, and have lived my entire life here.
I've seen any good numbers of "quallified Montana native applicants" turned down for positions in favor of the transplant.
This kind of thing happens across the board, and in all industries around here.
Tigergal, dangerousdan.......
Don't misconstrew what I said......what I'm saying is that I want to see the local Montanans get the jobs, the jobs they keep promising we are going to get, the jobs they (politicians mostly) keep telling us they want to and are creating for us montanans.
Second, there are many many many smart and highy educated people already living here, that with some minimal training or education could easliy fill those jobs, before hiring people from out of state.......In my entire career, spanning education, engineering, research, and swinging a chainsaw, I've yet to see a job opening that a person already inhouse or localy hired could not have done, so you might call this a person pevee of mine, I will make except it the job opening is in the area of ..."Brain Surgeon" Most jobs simpley disqualify many people with silly educational requirements, when the people have more than enough skills to fill the job, but don't have the sheepskin. And I speak from personal experience, being overly educated myself.
dangersous dan..........
THE ROWBOAT IS TIPPING OVER, if it wasn't you wouldn't be hearing from lots of folks besides myself saying what a change has befallen our state.
Once again, to repeat myself, you don't want to except the facts because they make you uncomfortable, I understand that, and I sympathize with you even thought you don't do the like.
I think I'll just chalk this one up to one's being so steadfast in their belief that they're not open to other possibilities or even other realities.
Joe, I am not uncomfortable. I just find your viewpoint a tad reactionary and extreme.
I would note that we live in a country of market capitalism -- if I, for example, a big city transplant, am a more desirable job candidate than a local, good for me. I make no apologies.
Looks like you'll have to throw giftshopguy in the same camp as me.....we both must be irrational, reationary,
Now why do you have to resort to name calling. Just because a person disagrees with you there is no need to label them irrational, reactionary, etc....
Hey giftshopguy, are you "extreme" too Because you think growth has run a much around here ?
The montana growth boat is/has tipped over....MAKE NO MISTAKE about it, if I'm extreme for saying that so are alot of other people around here......
I see giftshopguy has witnessed the same things I have in terms of hiring qualified people. I quit one place because of it, I figured if they can't hire their own existing people to move them up, it wasn't the kind of place I had much future in....best move I ever did. They wanted to hire me back a few years later at a rate of pay I found laughable considering my new position. The position I moved on to....was far more demanding than the simple position I was trying to move up to in the previous place.....Actually I didn't quit the first place until it happen 3 or 4 times.....I couldn't beleive they rather hire someone new than move their own people up....I've since learned that that is very typical behavior especially in government jobs. They are more concerned with the social thing, hiring the right people, paper qualifications and the like then actually getting good people and getting a job done....and I'm sure 99 percent of the people working in government jobs would tell you that as it is so blatantly obivious when you are work there.
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