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Old 12-22-2011, 06:24 AM
 
57 posts, read 145,671 times
Reputation: 75

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My next door neighbor recently refinanced their house from 30yr/5% to 30yr/4.25% and received credit from mortgage broker of about 5k. They were eligible for a lower rate 30yr/3.875% but choose to select the higher rate due to the credit that was being given to them.

Then he tells me jokingly that they will refinance again in a couple of months to get the lower rate (30yr/3.875%) at no cost.

I was confused by the logic they were using but it didnt sound right to me. Would there be laws that prevented such borderline-fraud refinancing?

Can anyone knowledgeable on this subject care to shed some light?
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Plano, Texas
1,673 posts, read 7,006,075 times
Reputation: 697
What fraud is being committed? A homeowner can refinance their mortgage as often as they like.


I have refinance many clients several times. The logic is very simple, a few months ago no cost refinances where in the 4.5% range..now rates are lower, and no cost loans are even lower. Any consumer can choose a no cost loan option. On a no cost loan, there are closing costs. The only thing that differs is who pays them. On a no cost loan, the consumer chooses a higher interest rate and the lender pays the closing costs for them. That same consumer could choose to pay the closing costs and secure a lower rate if they would like.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Mount Laurel
4,187 posts, read 11,887,797 times
Reputation: 3512
Anyone can refinance as often as they like (if they qualify) and it's actually good for everyone. Refinancing almost always incur cost (appraisal, application, underwritting, title insurance) so money for those parties.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:53 AM
 
57 posts, read 145,671 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorBurek View Post
What fraud is being committed? A homeowner can refinance their mortgage as often as they like.


I have refinance many clients several times. The logic is very simple, a few months ago no cost refinances where in the 4.5% range..now rates are lower, and no cost loans are even lower. Any consumer can choose a no cost loan option. On a no cost loan, there are closing costs. The only thing that differs is who pays them. On a no cost loan, the consumer chooses a higher interest rate and the lender pays the closing costs for them. That same consumer could choose to pay the closing costs and secure a lower rate if they would like.
So by the above logic, they can technically earn 5k by refinancing twice and get the lowest rate around ~3.875% ?

Have the cake, eat it too and take one home as well!

So if they had chosen to go from 30yr/5% directly to 30yr/3.875% they would not have gotten any credit from the broker due to the lower rates. By doing this back to back, they get the benefit of both?

So this 5k they they got credited with during the 1st refinance, someone has to bear that expense? Its either the mortgage broker or mortgage lending company?
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Plano, Texas
1,673 posts, read 7,006,075 times
Reputation: 697
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobdrob View Post
So by the above logic, they can technically earn 5k by refinancing twice and get the lowest rate around ~3.875% ?

Have the cake, eat it too and take one home as well!

So if they had chosen to go from 30yr/5% directly to 30yr/3.875% they would not have gotten any credit from the broker due to the lower rates. By doing this back to back, they get the benefit of both?

So this 5k they they got credited with during the 1st refinance, someone has to bear that expense? Its either the mortgage broker or mortgage lending company?

The end investor who buys the mortgage backed security that the loan was bundled in ends up paying the expense.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Austin
7,244 posts, read 21,737,616 times
Reputation: 10013
Has he explained how he expects to get the 3.875% without paying anything? That's basically the par rate and he's not going to get any lender credits at that rate so he would be out of pocket the expenses, unless he's getting that rate with a 15 year mortgage.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Wake Forest, NC
835 posts, read 3,971,444 times
Reputation: 650
I have closed many loans at 3.99% with no closing costs in the last 6 months. You have to catch a valley but not far off from 3.875%. During these valleys I got a couple of clients 3.875% with no closing costs as well- the stars aligned with a high conforming loan amount, low loan to value(under 60%), and a lender incentive for higher conforming loan amounts.
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