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Exactly. It only took bouncing my head off the pavement a few times to figure out the right questions to ask. That said, there’s a TON of lenders and brokers out there that just plain suck at their jobs, or immediately turn your file over to some processor that doesn’t care, once they’ve sold you
A one point or half point LO fee is small potatoes if it guarantees that I’ll close on time without a bunch of histrionics. I’ve literally had to provide my ex-wife’s marriage certificate to an underwriter to prove she was remarried. Granted, that was at the height of the hard credit market, but totally ridiculous 5 days before closing - well, actually 8 days because they didn’t get the file together in time.
So. Having purchased homes over a few decades, here’s what I have to say:
Cool. You need my records? You ran my credit super early in the process - you saw all the accounts.
How about you give me one checklist and quit nickel and diming me down the road? Ooooh, even better, how about you LO and LP folks ANSWER THE PHONE when a customer calls to confirm your receipt.
This frustrating mess runs both ways.
This. We refinanced in January 2018, using the same lender as our then current mortgage we had been with for 11 years, to a shorter term than what we had and of course a lower rate. We were becoming a lower risk borrower. We submitted everything that was asked for, more or less within hours. Then we’d get some other request and submit that, then a couple of days later, something else, like when the guy was freaking out because my wife, who gets paid various bonuses as a significant part of her compensation means she doesn’t make the exact same amount each year. Even though we made a multiple of what would be required for the loan without any bonus at all. He made us write a letter to explain it. I’m like dang dude, you’ve never heard of a bonus?
This. We refinanced in January 2018, using the same lender as our then current mortgage we had been with for 11 years, to a shorter term than what we had and of course a lower rate. We were becoming a lower risk borrower. We submitted everything that was asked for, more or less within hours. Then we’d get some other request and submit that, then a couple of days later, something else, like when the guy was freaking out because my wife, who gets paid various bonuses as a significant part of her compensation means she doesn’t make the exact same amount each year. Even though we made a multiple of what would be required for the loan without any bonus at all. He made us write a letter to explain it. I’m like dang dude, you’ve never heard of a bonus?
That's a pretty standard request. Underwriting requirements are vastly different from what they were 11 years ago. If the bonuses aren't consistent amounts, you have to show that they 1) are increasing rather than decreasing, 2) have at least a 2-year history, and 3) per the employer, are likely to continue.
However, if your DTI was fine without the bonuses, they should've been able to exclude that from the income calculation.
That's a pretty standard request. Underwriting requirements are vastly different from what they were 11 years ago. If the bonuses aren't consistent amounts, you have to show that they 1) are increasing rather than decreasing, 2) have at least a 2-year history, and 3) per the employer, are likely to continue.
However, if your DTI was fine without the bonuses, they should've been able to exclude that from the income calculation.
DTI was more than fine. Other than the house payment and a car, we basically have no debt, a much better condition than when the loan was originated and we make more money. And the request came in after they had the files for a couple of weeks and was a sudden emergency. But no they weren’t increasing and I imagine that was the biggest issue, because she has a setup with long and short term bonus payouts set up like mock shares in her company basically. (A comical services company that is not publicly traded) The long term are every 3 or 5 years IIRC and the short term are every year. When the long and short term hit the same year, it bumps the amount up considerably and all of them vary with the performance of the company year to year, which somewhat tracks the stock market.
DTI was more than fine. Other than the house payment and a car, we basically have no debt, a much better condition than when the loan was originated and we make more money. And the request came in after they had the files for a couple of weeks and was a sudden emergency. But no they weren’t increasing and I imagine that was the biggest issue, because she has a setup with long and short term bonus payouts set up like mock shares in her company basically. (A comical services company that is not publicly traded) The long term are every 3 or 5 years IIRC and the short term are every year. When the long and short term hit the same year, it bumps the amount up considerably and all of them vary with the performance of the company year to year, which somewhat tracks the stock market.
I can see where that would've been more challenging to document adequately - but certainly not impossible and shouldn't have been an emergency. From your explanation of your DTI, they shouldn't have used that income and therefore not required this documentation. What probably happened was that they used it anyway, the underwriter saw it, and then you usually don't have a choice about documenting it or not. Some underwriters will be like, "Yeah, you have a point. The income isn't needed," and others will be all, "Nope! I saw it and I can't unsee it! Document it now!"
I can see where that would've been more challenging to document adequately - but certainly not impossible and shouldn't have been an emergency. From your explanation of your DTI, they shouldn't have used that income and therefore not required this documentation. What probably happened was that they used it anyway, the underwriter saw it, and then you usually don't have a choice about documenting it or not. Some underwriters will be like, "Yeah, you have a point. The income isn't needed," and others will be all, "Nope! I saw it and I can't unsee it! Document it now!"
And my thinking, as a customer with a pretty straightforward loan (Like ST's), is that YOU had those income docs and should have said "hey, for variable income like this, let's get a letter now explaining this" in say, day one or two after seeing all of my financial life.
Then, you need it or don't. It's the "We need this right now or we won't close on time!!!" when I'm on the road and have to find some wifi or something to get you a document you called me at 3:45 your time about - then don't answer the phone at 4:30 and leave me to wonder all weekend.
I'm not saying that's your approach. But that is the norm.
And my thinking, as a customer with a pretty straightforward loan (Like ST's), is that YOU had those income docs and should have said "hey, for variable income like this, let's get a letter now explaining this" in say, day one or two after seeing all of my financial life.
and yes, i need ALL PAGES of the statement. even if p3 of 3 states "intentionally left blank"
the photo you sent of the first page only, with half the address cut off, will not suffice
and for heavens sake, don't lease a new car a week after application!
It’s just as frustrating on the consumer side. I just went through this a few months ago. It was not a pleasant experience.
It goes both ways.
I just went through this myself and I didn't really find it that bad at all. Nowadays so much can be done electronically that most of this was just an inconvenience of a few minutes, every time an updated statement was needed. It was really no big deal in my experience. Of course, YMMV, as always.
I just went through this myself and I didn't really find it that bad at all. Nowadays so much can be done electronically that most of this was just an inconvenience of a few minutes, every time an updated statement was needed. It was really no big deal in my experience. Of course, YMMV, as always.
It really, really, depends on your file and the LO/LP that you have working it.
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