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Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,326 posts, read 54,350,985 times
Reputation: 40731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kradmelder
I cant say the 1200 is an overly complex bike. It is very simple and still oil and air cooled. only 2013 got liquid cooling. The only complexity is the electronics, but then again just about all bikes have that with the exception of Harley. The injectors are also a necessity due to emission control regs which about killed off every carburetted bike.
I haven't kept up, what are they using for ABS these days? I've only had one with I guess ABS II? which was relatively simple and easy to maintain. Then they switched to the 'whizzy' brakes which had a pump and was far more complex and a real PITA to bleed. I believe that system had a (deserved) early death.
While no doubt complex in design I always found the injection system simple from a user's point of view, keep dirt and water from the system, do a good TB sync at valve adjustment and you were good to go.
Have the final drive issues been fixed with the 1200s? Seems to me when the 1200GS first came out FDs were failing quite frequently, I know the previous design also had its share of failures. Conventional wisdom seemed to be many had the large OD bearing shimmed too tight from day one leading to its eventual disintegration. It seemed if it went 50K it'd go 100K but I believe there were a fair number that didn't make 50K.
I haven't kept up, what are they using for ABS these days? I've only had one with I guess ABS II? which was relatively simple and easy to maintain. Then they switched to the 'whizzy' brakes which had a pump and was far more complex and a real PITA to bleed. I believe that system had a (deserved) early death.
While no doubt complex in design I always found the injection system simple from a user's point of view, keep dirt and water from the system, do a good TB sync at valve adjustment and you were good to go.
Have the final drive issues been fixed with the 1200s? Seems to me when the 1200GS first came out FDs were failing quite frequently, I know the previous design also had its share of failures. Conventional wisdom seemed to be many had the large OD bearing shimmed too tight from day one leading to its eventual disintegration. It seemed if it went 50K it'd go 100K but I believe there were a fair number that didn't make 50K.
There were problems with the ABS pump until 2008. Then it got ABS II without servo assistance. Mine is an 09 and the only issue I head is the rubber seal on the ball joint above the telelever cracked. That gets sand in and the whole unit had to be replaced. I ride gravel and dirt roads a lot. I also had an intermittent headlight problem on the main beam. The seat on the back of the light had fused. BMW wanted to replace the whole light assembly but I got the seat from a scrapped bike and no problem.
The final drive I assume you mean the shaft? Some of the bikes here had to have shafts replaced but I think they didn't change the oil. The manual says not necessary but in African conditions it is changed far more frequently, especially if you ride off road. So here we do it more often than specified. Ive had no problem after 61 000 km. The assembly is expensive but if you factor in all the chain and sprocket changes you save on, and all the lube (expensive here), I guess changing the drive will only work out to be a bit more. Just all spent at one time.
I guess like any vehicle. Early models are always plagued. Over years it is sorted. That is why I am not buying an 1200 LC or the KTM 1190 for a few years. Let someone else iron out the bugs. I don't want the hassle just to look trendy
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,326 posts, read 54,350,985 times
Reputation: 40731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kradmelder
There were problems with the ABS pump until 2008. Then it got ABS II without servo assistance. Mine is an 09 and the only issue I head is the rubber seal on the ball joint above the telelever cracked. That gets sand in and the whole unit had to be replaced. I ride gravel and dirt roads a lot. I also had an intermittent headlight problem on the main beam. The seat on the back of the light had fused. BMW wanted to replace the whole light assembly but I got the seat from a scrapped bike and no problem.
Yes, I much prefer ABS II to the system employing the pump, much simpler and if it fails you still have 'normal' non-ABS braking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kradmelder
The final drive I assume you mean the shaft? Some of the bikes here had to have shafts replaced but I think they didn't change the oil. The manual says not necessary but in African conditions it is changed far more frequently, especially if you ride off road. So here we do it more often than specified. Ive had no problem after 61 000 km. The assembly is expensive but if you factor in all the chain and sprocket changes you save on, and all the lube (expensive here), I guess changing the drive will only work out to be a bit more. Just all spent at one time.
No, I mean the ring & pinion assembly itself, reports of failures at less than 50K miles are not uncommon. What oil are you referring to that would affect shaft life? Not sure about airheads but AFAIK all the 'oilhead' twins have had driveshafts that run dry in their housing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kradmelder
I guess like any vehicle. Early models are always plagued. Over years it is sorted. That is why I am not buying an 1200 LC or the KTM 1190 for a few years. Let someone else iron out the bugs. I don't want the hassle just to look trendy
Exactly why I believe the thought of 'German engineering' being somehow innately superior to any other is mythical, they have their own problems like any other vehicle manufacturer. Advertising goes a long way, I've heard a number of non-car type people over the years cite Volvos as being safer than other cars. When questioned as to what makes that the case they usually have little to offer other than the claims of Volvo advertising.
Yes, I much prefer ABS II to the system employing the pump, much simpler and if it fails you still have 'normal' non-ABS braking.
No, I mean the ring & pinion assembly itself, reports of failures at less than 50K miles are not uncommon. What oil are you referring to that would affect shaft life? Not sure about airheads but AFAIK all the 'oilhead' twins have had driveshafts that run dry in their housing.
Exactly why I believe the thought of 'German engineering' being somehow innately superior to any other is mythical, they have their own problems like any other vehicle manufacturer. Advertising goes a long way, I've heard a number of non-car type people over the years cite Volvos as being safer than other cars. When questioned as to what makes that the case they usually have little to offer other than the claims of Volvo advertising.
My RnineT has fluid in the final drive, was replaced at 600 miles and again at 5k.
My bike is the first BMW I've had, but it's freakin' sweet so far. Build quality is superb.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,326 posts, read 54,350,985 times
Reputation: 40731
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur
My RnineT has fluid in the final drive, was replaced at 600 miles and again at 5k.
My bike is the first BMW I've had, but it's freakin' sweet so far. Build quality is superb.
Yes, there'd better be oil in the final drive , I was referring to a post that'd said " Some of the bikes here had to have shafts replaced but I think they didn't change the oil." I believe some of the earlier twins may have had a driveshaft that ran in oil but AFAIK oil-heads and newer have driveshafts that run dry. I was just curious if that had changed.
15:08 in the video, explains the rear drive failure. If BMW service can't do it properly, it is a poor design, sorry.
Anyway, ours is gone this spring. Not much sense in selling a motorcycle in the winter.
Funny enough people up north don't realize the market down here in FL is good year round. If anything, the dead of summer is not good for us because of the heavy heat/humidity and the frequent rain. Conversely, this time of the year is perfect riding weather, hence the reason I am in the market now.
As to the rear drive failure, I've also heard that due to a design flaw, if the clutch or brake(I forget which)system leaks, it somehow can get into the rear drive shaft and causes a major repair. Anyone heard of or experience that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell
At best it's probably not the bike you want to own without having deep pockets or the ability to do your own maintenance/repairs.
That is what I am worried about. I will not ride often enough to justify spending too much on a ride if it is not dependable and expensive to fix.
I say that because now days, it is far more dangerous than when I was riding regularly years ago. Every time you turn around, you see kids and even adults swerving on the road because they are distracted due to texting. I've even seen idiots playing video games and/or watching movies while driving.
In my Suburban they will lose, but on a bike there is little chance you are not going to be maimed.
At best it's probably not the bike you want to own without having deep pockets or the ability to do your own maintenance/repairs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
That is what I am worried about. I will not ride often enough to justify spending too much on a ride if it is not dependable and expensive to fix.
I say that because now days, it is far more dangerous than when I was riding regularly years ago. Every time you turn around, you see kids and even adults swerving on the road because they are distracted due to texting. I've even seen idiots playing video games and/or watching movies while driving.
In my Suburban they will lose, but on a bike there is little chance you are not going to be maimed.
This has never been my experience and I've owned 3 different BMWs as my one and only motorcycle for the last 24 years. My first, a 1983 R80 bought in 1990. Very, very reliable. I've ridden mine across the country a couple of times.
BMWs are commonly used in the nationwide Iron Butt Rally ("Iron Butt Rally Winner Does 11,799 Miles in 11'Days"). Finish results of the last Iron Butt Rally, 2013: http://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2013/07-12-13.pdf
Many BMWs are listed. Don't listen to a few detractors, or even a few fans like me. Look at the data, look at the facts, then decide for yourself.
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, I was referring to a post that'd said " Some of the bikes here had to have shafts replaced but I think they didn't change the oil." I believe some of the earlier twins may have had a driveshaft that ran in oil but AFAIK oil-heads and newer have driveshafts that run dry. I was just curious if that had changed.
