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The thrust was that whites do not turn out for black oriented motion pictures due to lack of empathy. Is that supposed to be the moral shortcoming? It is morally wrong to not relate well to that which is less familiar? It is morally wrong to prefer entertainment where one can relate?
I would readily agree that it is morally wrong for a white person to deny a black person equal treatment in matters of housing, employment, schooling etc. It is less clear to me why this would be critical in terms of individuals selecting their private amusements. Black attendance at baseball games has been on the decline since the 1980's. It corresponds to a steady decline in the number of blacks athletes choosing baseball over football and basketball careers. Is that some sort of moral shortcoming on the part of blacks? Should they be obligated to better support the "National Pass Time?"
Apples and oranges. The popularity of baseball has declined in the black community, period, in favor of basketball and football.
Maybe "moral shortcoming" isn't always the proper term to use, since their bias may not be a conscious one. Closed-mindedness might be better suiting. I'm a black man, who grew up in a predominantly black community, but many of my favorite films and television shows feature largely white casts, in which the story-lines are often somewhat foreign to the black experience. The color of my skin has nothing to do with the types of entertainment that I enjoy, and I know that the same is true for many if not most blacks. So if it's not a problem for us, why is it a problem for many whites? I'm not saying this makes them bad people, but perhaps it's time to reevaluate their outlook.
One example that always sticks out in my mind is when the film Titanic was released. My friends and I went to go see it at a nearby theater, and the room was filled with blacks. I don't remember anyone walking out or expressing disgust with the fact that there wasn't a single person of color in that film (despite the fact that there is documented evidence of blacks being on that ship).
. So if it's not a problem for us, why is it a problem for many whites? I'm not saying this makes them bad people, but perhaps it's time to reevaluate their outlook.
Have you considered the simple answer? That the whites folks have been cranking out superior entertainment? The Cosby Show was a huge ratings success with all races because most people seemed to find it a well written and performed show.
Are you suggesting that whites have some social obligation to watch black oriented entertainment even if they do not find the offering up to par?
Have you considered the simple answer? That the whites folks have been cranking out superior entertainment? The Cosby Show was a huge ratings success with all races because most people seemed to find it a well written and performed show.
Are you suggesting that whites have some social obligation to watch black oriented entertainment even if they do not find the offering up to par?
I'm not sitting here asking why there aren't more white people going to see Tyler Perry movies, which we can both agree are pitiful. I'm talking about the QUALITY black films. Films that even WHITE critics have praised, but the general, less open-minded white population has not supported. Spike Lee, for example, is one of the most praised filmmakers of our generation, yet the average white person probably couldn't name one of his films. So, sorry, but I don't buy your excuse.
There are plenty of great black filmmakers out there, but Hollywood isn't giving them the shine they deserve. Hell, Hollywood even has a problem with casting black actors in respectable roles. I'm sure your excuse for that will be that there aren't very many good black actors.
I'm not sitting here asking why there aren't more white people going to see Tyler Perry movies, which we can both agree are pitiful. I'm talking about the QUALITY black films. Films that even WHITE critics have praised, but the general, less open-minded white population has not supported. Spike Lee, for example, is one of the most praised filmmakers of our generation, yet the average white person probably couldn't name one of his films. So, sorry, but I don't buy your excuse.
There are plenty of great black filmmakers out there, but Hollywood isn't giving them the shine they deserve. Hell, Hollywood even has a problem with casting black actors in respectable roles. I'm sure your excuse for that will be that there aren't very many good black actors.
If you had understood me better, you would recognize that I am advancing the idea that no one actually needs an excuse to not attend an entertainment event which that person anticipates will not be to his or her liking. I'm in favor of meritocracy in most things, and in the case of entertainment choices, it is one of the few things which I may control so that it is a meritocracy.
For example, if my idea of entertainment does not include watching a religious themed film with Barbara Streisand depicting existential angst while masquerading as man, then I'm not going to invest any time or treasure viewing "Yentl." A Jewish person could come along and scold me, saying that it was written by the well respected Issac Bashevis Singer and the film makes an important social point about the treatment of women under the Talmud, well, that makes no difference to me, none of that stuff is to my interest. I'm an atheist and never like films where the character's goal is some religious achievement, and I never like films which involve cross dressing because I never believe it for a second and am outraged by the pretense of the actors that they are unaware that this is actually a man dressed as a woman or a woman dressed as a man. The whole concept of Yentl is a non starter for me.
Would the Jewish person then be fair if he or she concluded that I was not attending because I was anti Semitic?
You aren't buying my excuse, but then I wasn't offering one for sale. I don't think anyone needs to have to justify what they like or dislike by way of entertainment, it is merely a matter of personal taste.
btw....I've seen Do the Right Thing, Malcolm X, Crooklyn, Clockers and Summer of Sam, five Spike Lee films. Of those five, I liked Do the Right Thing quite a bit, thought the novel Clockers was way better than Lee's interpretation on screen, and can't remember much at all about the others, suggesting that I did not care for them very much. Am I allowed to have these opinions or am I socially obligated to have enjoyed the films more? In that I liked only one of the five Lee films I have seen, am I socially obligated to watch the others or may I conclude that it is unlikely that I will find them entertaining and avoid them on those grounds alone?
Last edited by Grandstander; 02-22-2014 at 07:04 PM..
If you had understood me better, you would recognize that I am advancing the idea that no one actually needs an excuse to not attend an entertainment event which that person anticipates will not be to his or her liking. I'm in favor of meritocracy in most things, and in the case of entertainment choices, it is one of the few things which I may control so that it is a meritocracy.
For example, if my idea of entertainment does not include watching a religious themed film with Barbara Streisand depicting existential angst while masquerading as man, then I'm not going to invest any time or treasure viewing "Yentl." A Jewish person could come along and scold me, saying that it was written by the well respected Issac Bashevis Singer and the film makes an important social point about the treatment of women under the Talmud, well, that makes no difference to me, none of that stuff is to my interest. I'm an atheist and never like films where the character's goal is some religious achievement, and I never like films which involve cross dressing because I never believe it for a second and am outraged by the pretense of the actors that they are unaware that this is actually a man dressed as a woman or a woman dressed as a man. The whole concept of Yentl is a non starter for me.
Would the Jewish person then be fair if he or she concluded that I was not attending because I was anti Semitic?
You aren't buying my excuse, but then I wasn't offering one for sale. I don't think anyone needs to have to justify what they like or dislike by way of entertainment, it is merely a matter of personal taste.
btw....I've seen Do the Right Thing, Malcolm X, Crooklyn, Clockers and Summer of Sam, five Spike Lee films. Of those five, I liked Do the Right Thing quite a bit, thought the novel Clockers was way better than Lee's interpretation on screen, and can't remember much at all about the others, suggesting that I did not care for them very much. Am I allowed to have these opinions or am I socially obligated to have enjoyed the films more? In that I liked only one of the five Lee films I have seen, am I socially obligated to watch the others or may I conclude that it is unlikely that I will find them entertaining and avoid them on those grounds alone?
So Spike Lee isn't really your taste. That's fine, as he was just an example. Though I can't give you a solid answer without being exactly sure of why you don't care for his work. I can't stand to sit through most of Tyler Perry's movies, but that's because he's not a very good filmmaker, and that seems to be the common consensus. The same can hardly be said of Spike Lee.
Again, all I'm hearing is excuses on your end. I'm a follower of the Christian faith, and I've enjoyed several films and television shows filled with anti-Christian dialogue and messages. Dare I say that I am simply more open-minded than you, as arrogant as it sounds? Perhaps blacks, in general, are more tolerant when it comes to entertainment. I've noticed this with music, as well as films.
I'm white, and I would really enjoy seeing some good biographies of black people. I'm sure Cornell West, George Washington Carver, Henry Louis Gates , and such others would be fascinating subjects.
I came across a site that discussed things that were invented by black Americans. I doubt the average person is aware of these things.
It seems Hollywood is more interested in sensationalism.
Now if Spike Lee were to decide to make a biographical movie about Bass Reeves, the Arkansas man who went from slave to Deputy Marshall and was one of the most effective of the west's lawmen, I'd turn out for that. Reeves' story is a rip snorter, no need to embellish it, lots of action, lots of melodrama (Reeves once had to arrest his own son on a murder charge). He had lived among the Nations tribes for a time after he ran away and wound up being able to speak three tribal languages. He got his appointment as a marshal from the famous Hanging Judge Parker.
His career as a lawman spanned thirty two years, 3000 arrests and 14 men killed by Reeves resisting arrest.
His story is begging to be told on the screen, or as a tv series, and I'd love to see it.
You may want to read this article in the Atlantic about the accuracy in 12 Years a Slave. It's an interesting perspective on the subject and does point out the exaggeration and misrepresentations in the movie versus the book.
Not the point I'm trying to make at all. There are actual documented accounts that are written proof of American slavery being an institution that did indeed contain torture and gore. I've yet to see the film, but I'm sure nothing in 12YAS was exaggerated. Django was intended to be a fictional, comic depiction of the antebellum South. I thought everyone knew this, so I'm not sure where you find fault with it. The Butler was also a fictional story only loosely based on facts. How can you be certain of what was and wasn't fabricated about certain presidents? One of the main points of the story was the conflict between Cecil Gaines and his son, so they certainly weren't trying to make the man look perfect. He was flawed and they showed that.
So you want Hollywood to make the slaveowners look better? Please. There's nothing "decent" about claiming another human being as your property. The benevolent thing to do would be to free your slaves and pick your own damn cotton. What you're discussing is a sickness of the mindset that existed in both slaves and slave masters: the concept of the "benevolent", civilized owner and his obedient, docile slave who loves his master oh so dearly. Harriet Tubman said it herself: "I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more, if only they knew they were slaves."
I didn't say "black movies" should stop. I said these types of movies should stop. You're welcome to your opinion and I'm welcome to mine.
Okay I will reword it. "These type of movies" shouldn't stop. Tell the Jewish community to stop making those type of movies that reminds everyone of their tortuous past and the evil of Hitler and Nazis. Like I said, don't go to see it. Are you carrying some type of fault guilt jealousy resentment anger. If so, why and where does it comes from. The movies don't need to stop because you don't like it or white people don't like it. If the wider audience don't want to see it then it's there for black people to see. It's not about pleasing you.
White people like good films about black people. THE COLOR PURPLE is one of my mom's favs (I like it, but chick flick...) and when I was young, we watched all of Sidney Poitiers films. Amistad, Beloved...
Problem is, and I think the OP and a lot of others have hit it already, you can only watch the same film so many times. When I was a kid, ROOTS was a big deal and we watched it as an important piece of history. But you can only watch so many movies about slavery before you start seeing them as being "by the numbers," to use an industry phrase.
It is time to start expanding the franchise a bit. Why has there never been a historical epic about the Mali Empire, the Nubians, or Aksum? I believe there was the one film about the Harlem Renaissance when I was too young to see it, but why has that never been re-visited? Has there ever been a good one about the Buffalo Soldiers?
Was there ever a movie about Thurgood Mashall's life story?
Or how about some nice slice of life films that have nothing to do with oppression or outrageous comedy?
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