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It was right out of the comics. You're talking like a DC hater now.
I never claimed to be a fan of the comics. I don't hate DC comics, but the only ones I have ever really loved are the various Batbooks --- and even those are hit and miss. Some of the Superman comics over the years haven't been half bad, but I'm just not a fan of the character. I really tried to enjoy the Flash and Green Lantern comics over the years, and they're just not for me.
Comics are just like novels and movies in that quality has most to do with the writer.
Comics are just like novels and movies in that quality has most to do with the writer.
And like songs and songwriters, and poems and poets?
(Ever read a bad story with GREAT art? Marvel was good at that, especially in the '80s!)
DC was there for me when Marvel dialed up the fisticuffs and even good art couldn't save it. When Miller left for DC, all Marvel had was X-Men and the downhill slide that book was on, and Walt Simonson's excellent Thor reboot. They went and cancelled Epic (which was kicking Heavy Metal's butt) like a bunch of idiots. Marvel Fanfare was a fine anthology book, and usually had good content.
Even Kirby's return to Marvel in the mid-70s was underwhelming most of the time, especially in the shadow of the Fourth World at DC, which IMO is the greatest thing he ever did.
Comics are just like novels and movies in that quality has most to do with the writer.
And since you said that, I'll take the liberty to point out yet again that Zack Snyder did not write Watchmen (David Hayter & Alex Tse), Man of Steel (Christopher Nolan & David Goyer), or Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Chris Terrio & David Goyer).
And like songs and songwriters, and poems and poets?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
(Ever read a bad story with GREAT art? Marvel was good at that, especially in the '80s!)
Oh, yeah. Definitely. Good writing can elevate bad art, but the best art in the world cannot save a bad story. And that holds true in other media as well. Look at most Ridley Scott movies over the past 30 years. Absolutely gorgeous, yet still awful. All the pretty images can't redeem bad story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
And since you said that, I'll take the liberty to point out yet again that Zack Snyder did not write Watchmen (David Hayter & Alex Tse), Man of Steel (Christopher Nolan & David Goyer), or Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Chris Terrio & David Goyer).
Yup. But if you're seriously suggesting that Zack Snyder wasn't heavily involved in the overall story process, then I am going to have to seriously insist that Mr. Ostrich pull his head from the sand.
Oh, yeah. Definitely. Good writing can elevate bad art, but the best art in the world cannot save a bad story.
Not sure I agree with that. There may have been some decent X-Men stories in the late '80s, but I was completely put off by the awful visuals put forth by the likes of Whilce Portacio and the other guys who eventually left to form Image. The comic book is not picto-fiction (text with accompanying images), it's...a comic book. Words and visuals must work together. Marvel's crap back then was a turn-off. Again, DC may not have had the overall better sales (just like their movies today), but they didn't serve up the same old, same old. Marvel did, and their dedicated fans lapped it up and defended it vehemently — kind of like...today!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
Yup. But if you're seriously suggesting that Zack Snyder wasn't heavily involved in the overall story process, then I am going to have to seriously insist that Mr. Ostrich pull his head from the sand.
I've said it before, but you're forever the nihilist: The only change Zack made to Man of Steel was the neck snap (which Nolan was first against, then for). Zack was not the first director they courted, even though he made Watchmen (which is basically a panel-for-panel adaptation of the graphic novel). Like any director, Zack will have some input on the narrative, but Goyer and Terrio did the lion's share of the writing. Terrio's talked about his writing process. I'll dig up the link later.
Sure you do. Think of all the GREAT science fiction and horror movies with BAD special effects.
Would JAWS have been more effective with a realistic shark? I kinda doubt it, because the lack of a screenworthy shark forced Spielberg to concentrate on the characters and not the monster. A monster you see can evoke wonder or terror but not dread. A monster you can't see but you know is there evokes real dread, and that is the prime ingredient to a great horror flick.
A more modern example: GINGER SNAPS. Great horror movie, despite the mediocre or even downright bad special effects in some scenes. Or A COMPANY OF WOLVES, an otherwise brilliant movie whose most creative scene is just about ruined by an obviously plastic werewolf. Still, the one bad scene in no way ruins an otherwise great movie.
I'm trying to think of an example in comics, and the only one that leaps to mind is Brian Bendis's run on DAREDEVIL from a couple of decades ago. Hardly my favorite run on the book, but it was decent, even though I generally hated Maleev's art. He puts out a great piece of cover art now and then, but his interior panels are blank, static, and boring --- and all-too-obviously photoshopped at times.
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