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Old 02-05-2024, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,363 posts, read 7,995,858 times
Reputation: 27778

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
I don't see what is "not to get".

From the trailer, it appears to be a satire aimed at mocking how modern politics poisons literature and the writing process. The author has to hide who he really is and subordinate just writing an entertaining book to becoming someone espousing virtue signaling to be allowed to succeed.

I think the point is that long ago, he would have been allowed to just write entertaining books, but today you have to cater to every special interest groups and show your specific victimhood in order to be allowed by the publishing establishment to write entertaining stories. You are pigeon holed by your tribalism going into the literary process, because America no longer looks in terms of merit, but in terms of tribe and victim status, etc.
It's not quite that. Possible small spoilers below.

Spoiler
The main character is writing complex, literary novels, which just aren't as popular as they once were now that fewer people read books. His books are demanding and require thought (they're absolutely NOT beach reads), and don't have anything specifically to do with the Black experience in America (the one he's currently unsuccessfully pitching to publishers is a modern reworking of Aeschylus's The Persians). So he rightfully resents his books being pigeonholed in the African American Studies part of the bookstore where it's unlikely they'll find their audience, and he also rightfully resents that every successful book/film/song about Blacks seemingly embraces the worst stereotypes about Black people when he and all the Black folks he knows live very different lives. That's what prompts him, in a moment of anger, to write a crap book - and t his horror, THAT is what sells.
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Old 02-05-2024, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,363 posts, read 7,995,858 times
Reputation: 27778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The satire of the movie (I haven't seen it yet) appears to be "stories about race that are outside the box don't become popular successes."
Not quite. Possible spoilers below:

Spoiler
The main character, who is of course Black, isn't writing stories about race at all until, in a moment of anger, he writes a stereotypical "Black experience' book as a joke. That's the point - why does EVERYTHING a Black person creates have to be pigeonholed as being about race? His books belong in the Fiction and Literature section of the bookstore, but that's not where they are being placed.

Treat yourself and go see this movie!
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Old 02-05-2024, 12:46 PM
 
28,681 posts, read 18,806,457 times
Reputation: 30998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Not quite. Possible spoilers below:

Spoiler
The main character, who is of course Black, isn't writing stories about race at all until, in a moment of anger, he writes a stereotypical "Black experience' book as a joke. That's the point - why does EVERYTHING a Black person creates have to be pigeonholed as being about race? His books belong in the Fiction and Literature section of the bookstore, but that's not where they are being placed.

Treat yourself and go see this movie!
What I think you missed is that his stories are perceived and expected to be about race because he is a black writer--which is why his novels are placed in the black section of book stores.
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Old 02-05-2024, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,363 posts, read 7,995,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
What I think you missed is that his stories are perceived and expected to be about race because he is a black writer--which is why his novels are placed in the black section of book stores.
No, I didn't miss that. I was replying to your quote ""stories about race that are outside the box don't become popular successes." What you have bolded is indeed the prejudice any minority writer (especially a black one) can come under, and of course it's silly. The main character is writing stories that have nothing to do whatsoever with race in ANY way, shape, or form (except insofar as he's writing about the human race, not intelligent aliens). He's not outside the box, he's nowhere NEAR the box, which is what's flummoxing the dumber characters in the film (who would never think to put works by Hemmingway or Faulkner in a section titled "White American Studies").
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Old 02-05-2024, 02:22 PM
 
28,681 posts, read 18,806,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
No, I didn't miss that. I was replying to your quote ""stories about race that are outside the box don't become popular successes." What you have bolded is indeed the prejudice any minority writer (especially a black one) can come under, and of course it's silly. The main character is writing stories that have nothing to do whatsoever with race in ANY way, shape, or form (except insofar as he's writing about the human race, not intelligent aliens). He's not outside the box, he's nowhere NEAR the box, which is what's flummoxing the dumber characters in the film (who would never think to put works by Hemmingway or Faulkner in a section titled "White American Studies").
Of course he's outside the box (or as you put it, "nowhere near the box" which logically means he's outside the box).

"The box" is that a black writer is presumed by the book industry always to be writing about being black. The oblivious presumption is that what he's written must (somehow) be about blackness, and the book industry categorizes his work according to its presumption about black authors.
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Old 02-05-2024, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,363 posts, read 7,995,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Of course he's outside the box (or as you put it, "nowhere near the box" which logically means he's outside the box).

"The box" is that a black writer is presumed by the book industry always to be writing about being black. The oblivious presumption is that what he's written must (somehow) be about blackness, and the book industry categorizes his work according to its presumption about black authors.
We're in agreement, then. The movie is cleverly skewering all KINDS of ridiculous presumptions, not just that one. And all the major characters are complicated and flawed in very understandable and sympathetic ways. That's why I hope this film does big business at the box office! (An Oscar or two would be a nice cherry on top, too.)
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Old 02-05-2024, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
32,114 posts, read 34,747,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
It might be a self-fulfilling prophesy. A lot of white folks just won't get it...and a lot of black folks who are into "struggle porn" won't get it, either.
The irony here is that it's generally not Black people who are into that genre. Movies like 12 YEARS A SLAVE, SELMA and GREEN BOOK are produced for White audiences, not Black ones. These are typically the only movies with non-White casts that perform well at the box office. And in nearly each case, there's a "White Savior" archetype included for the purpose of drawing White interest. This phenomenon is exactly what the main character in AMERICAN FICTION describes. There are only so many stories you can tell about non-White people that are commercially viable.

Many of the more popular "Black" movies among Black audiences are movies that barely touch on race if they touch on it all. THE COLOR PURPLE is a much beloved classic that doesn't have any element of race to it beyond Sophia's dealings with Miss Millie and the town sheriff. COMING TO AMERICA has nothing to do with race or struggle. LOVE JONES has nothing to do with race or struggle. Black audiences generally want to see escapist movies where they can forget about the negative experiences of being Black for 120 minutes.
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Old 02-05-2024, 04:29 PM
 
28,681 posts, read 18,806,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
The irony here is that it's generally not Black people who are into that genre. Movies like 12 YEARS A SLAVE, SELMA and GREEN BOOK are produced for White audiences, not Black ones. These are typically the only movies with non-White casts that perform well at the box office. And in nearly each case, there's a "White Savior" archetype included for the purpose of drawing White interest. This phenomenon is exactly what the main character in AMERICAN FICTION describes. There are only so many stories you can tell about non-White people that are commercially viable.

Many of the more popular "Black" movies among Black audiences are movies that barely touch on race if they touch on it all. THE COLOR PURPLE is a much beloved classic that doesn't have any element of race to it beyond Sophia's dealings with Miss Millie and the town sheriff. COMING TO AMERICA has nothing to do with race or struggle. LOVE JONES has nothing to do with race or struggle. Black audiences generally want to see escapist movies where they can forget about the negative experiences of being Black for 120 minutes.
Apparently in your lexicon "about race" is only about interracial interactions.

"Struggle porn" can be, and often is, purely intra-racial. The Color Purple is textbook struggle porn.

Of course, white women love themselves some struggle porn as well (witness the success of "A Handmaid's Tale").
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Old 03-17-2024, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Vermont
9,467 posts, read 5,233,195 times
Reputation: 17925
Heard the hype, trailer looked really good, comments on YouTube were glowing.
Just got done watching it and while I did enjoy it, I don't think it lived up to the hype I was seeing. That said, the actors were amazing, all of them.

I think it was more drama than comedy - although there were some very funny parts - and I just came away feeling more sad than uplifted, frankly. Sad for Jeffrey Wright's character and, if this is any accurate portrayal, sad for what black authors might experience when trying to publish something serious. I think it was a dig at the 'white' publishing houses and film makers, too, who want something 'authentically black' but probably wouldn't recognize it if it him them in the face.
It was reminiscent of an episode "This is Us" and not just because Sterling K. Brown was in it
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Old 03-17-2024, 12:37 PM
 
28,681 posts, read 18,806,457 times
Reputation: 30998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley. View Post
Sad for Jeffrey Wright's character and, if this is any accurate portrayal, sad for what black authors might experience when trying to publish something serious. I think it was a dig at the 'white' publishing houses and film makers, too, who want something 'authentically black' but probably wouldn't recognize it if it him them in the face.
That's the true of it. But it's not just a matter of the invisibility of creators like that writer, but the invisibility of the black middle class like that writer's entire family. Or think about the aspiring black middle class families that you saw in "Hidden Figures." Those black people are totally invisible to both Hollywood and Washington DC.
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