Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
All interesting info and makes me want to know more. Meanwhile, can anyone explain DiCaprio's character to me? It seems obvious he was supposed to be retarded or feeble minded or something - easy to use and easy to take advantage of - but in the movie he seemed to walk the line between knowing what he was doing and being a complete moron. It was never made clear enough which side of the line he thought he was on. And his wife's feelings for him weren't very clear, either.
What was quite clear was that the Indians were "other," and not due equal treatment. In fact, while a lot of people in the movie seemed to be aware of the extent of the murders, they didn't seem very bothered by them. None of the doctors were prosecuted for anything and all the life sentences didn't last for life.
Frankly, I don't think they were viewed as human beings by Hale and many white people in the area. I'll add in some other factors that I think accounted for what occurred:
1. Hale apparently lived in Texas earlier in his life and had some familiarity with what are known as the "Commanche Wars". In the Commanche Wars, Indians attacked white settlers and murder and rape of those settlers was quite common. It undoubtedly lead many to look upon Indians as "savages" or something worse.
2. Jealousy in that many white people of that era believed that all the good things in this country were meant for them and not for people of other races and backgrounds. This period was not far removed from the "Tulsa Riots" where white people killed many African Americans in Greenwood, an affluent suburb of Tulsa.
3. Fear of Hale. Many cooperated with him because they were afraid they would be killed or "dealt with" if they did not.
4. Oklahoma historically had a large amount of corruption in this period. Many did not trust the police, the courts, or the authorities. No one was going to take the chance of going to the police and informing on Hale because they had no security doing so. A couple who tried to do this were murdered.
I watched a documentary about William Hales life and after watching that we decided to forgo seeing the movie in the theatre as the documentary was pretty depressing to see what had transpired.
The documentary was able to put a lot more of what really happened in detail that the movie when we finally watched at home missed.
I will definitely be reading the book when I get a chance. All Hales treachery and orchestrated murders and he was pardoned by a US president. I love old school Vegas history and it was fascinating how he somehow wound up in the company of Billy Binion.
I ahave always had an interest in early American history and now that I am retired and we have opportunity’s for college courses I would love to take a few American History courses.
It was exactly the same time. The Osage Murders were from 1921 to 1926. The Tulsa Massacre was 5/31/21. And basically the same place. Greenwood, which today is part of downtown Tulsa, is less than a mile from Osage County and only 50 miles from Fairfax.
Just found out that a guy in the Ponca City Church I attended in the '60s and '70s who was an Osage... his grandfather was killed in the reign of terror.
In the movie, they kind of go through a litany of Osage people getting killed. Without mentioning his name, the movie shows a guy twitching about on the floor and the next shot of him is being dead in the bed being prepared for funeral.
This man, Joseph "Yellowhorse" Bates, Jr. was killed by poisoning in 1921. Apparently, by Wm Hale. Bates refused to sell Hale his land.
The man I knew Joe Dwain Bates... was born in 1929 and was a favorite of those of us who were kids at First Lutheran Church/School. Every year he would come into the class and teach us about the Osage while in full dress regalia. He also drove the school bus and was our boy scout explorer troop leader.
This Bates family goes back to Gov. Joe. Who is the Osage man who bartered the deal with the US government and Cherokees to take the money they got for their Kansas reservation and use it to purchase the Osage Co. reservation.
I think it is important for everyone following this thread to realize that what was unique about the Osage (besides the fact that the tribe retained the mineral rights) is that the entire reservation was allotted to Osage only. So individual Osage owned the entire county in 1906 (outside of the townsites). This is in contrast to all the other tribes in Oklahoma who's members only got 160 acres and the rest was open to white settlement.
We enjoyed Killers, its playing on Appletv now. We know little about Native Americans so it was very educational. It was very very long though!
I don’t think this film was meant to be watched streaming. I saw it in the theater and it did not seem long, I think because the cinematography is so enjoyable, which you miss when you watch it at home.
I don’t think this film was meant to be watched streaming. I saw it in the theater and it did not seem long, I think because the cinematography is so enjoyable, which you miss when you watch it at home.
Three plus hours is a long time in a theater, too! But yes Scorcese made another classic.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
