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Old 03-14-2024, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,363 posts, read 7,995,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
The political stuff was explained in the book. The CHOAM company controls the trade of all commodities that Guild will transport, and House Corrino had the majority of the shares. The House that held fiefdom of Arrakis does not 'control' spice.
The house that holds the fiefdom of Arrakis is the entity that has the actual physical control of the spice mining operation, which means they do in fact control it. No spice mining = no spice for the CHOAM company to transport, and soon no space travel (once the Navigators run out of their stores of spice).

Quote:
Paul could claim to control spice because he knew of a way to poison pre-spice masses sandworms depend on and collapse the entire spice-producing ecology. He who has the power to destroy something controls it.
Yes.
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Old 03-14-2024, 12:13 PM
 
28,681 posts, read 18,806,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Yes. Too bad for him that he couldn't see that. House Atriedes would never move against the Emperor unless he did something truly monstrous, and they wouldn't use their power over the spice coercively.
Yep.
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Old 03-14-2024, 12:14 PM
 
28,681 posts, read 18,806,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
The political stuff was explained in the book. The CHOAM company controls the trade of all commodities that Guild will transport, and House Corrino had the majority of the shares. The House that held fiefdom of Arrakis does not 'control' spice.

Paul could claim to control spice because he knew of a way to poison pre-spice masses sandworms depend on and collapse the entire spice-producing ecology. He who has the power to destroy something controls it.
That's Paul's threat.
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Old 03-14-2024, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,858 posts, read 2,176,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
The house that holds the fiefdom of Arrakis is the entity that has the actual physical control of the spice mining operation, which means they do in fact control it. No spice mining = no spice for the CHOAM company to transport, and soon no space travel (once the Navigators run out of their stores of spice).
If the house mining the spice is not doing its job the Emperor and other Great Houses could easily surround Arrakis and take it back. Even the fremen army couldn't take on all the Great Houses.
The Sardaukar is stronger than any House army and the Harkonnen army was not even on par with the Atreides'. In the book atomics aren't enough to destroy all spice so only Paul could make that threat.

Without the Guild for Paul to threaten the finale didn't really hold water.
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Old 03-14-2024, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,363 posts, read 7,995,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
If the house mining the spice is not doing its job the Emperor and other Great Houses could easily surround Arrakis and take it back.
No, House Harkonnen could destroy all the equipment needed for spice mining before such an attack could occur. It would take years to restore the mining operations to full capacity, years the empire probably doesn't have unless they have HUGE spice reserves stashed somewhere. Spice blowing around in the sand of Arrakis is useless (just as oil underground is useless without well heads and refineries).

He who has the power to destroy a thing has the true control of it. House Harkonnen didn't have the power to destroy the spice as Paul did, but they DID have the power to destroy the entire spice trade, had they wished to do so. That makes them a much larger threat than House Atriedes ever could be.

(The US learned this very lesson the hard way in 1973. Dune was prescient!)
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Old 03-14-2024, 04:19 PM
 
28,681 posts, read 18,806,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
No, House Harkonnen could destroy all the equipment needed for spice mining before such an attack could occur. It would take years to restore the mining operations to full capacity, years the empire probably doesn't have unless they have HUGE spice reserves stashed somewhere. Spice blowing around in the sand of Arrakis is useless (just as oil underground is useless without well heads and refineries).

He who has the power to destroy a thing has the true control of it. House Harkonnen didn't have the power to destroy the spice as Paul did, but they DID have the power to destroy the entire spice trade, had they wished to do so. That makes them a much larger threat than House Atriedes ever could be.

(The US learned this very lesson the hard way in 1973. Dune was prescient!)
The difference with Paul, compared to either House Harkonnen or House Atriedes is, "He's just crazy enough to do it."

Or at least he can convince them that he is.
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Old 03-14-2024, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,363 posts, read 7,995,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The difference with Paul, compared to either House Harkonnen or House Atriedes is, "He's just crazy enough to do it."

Or at least he can convince them that he is.
True, he's a wild card, as the years he spent living with the Fremen have changed him - how much, the emperor and the leaders of the Great Houses have no way of knowing. That gives him a psychological advantage for sure!
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