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It's not just the bottom line, it's the structure, especially since the influx of work-from-home out-of-staters has already driven up real estate prices astronomically and increases in education and infrastructure costs are sure to follow. The average two-child family does not pay sales or income taxes, nor enough in property taxes to offset the cost of education in their towns. Those education costs are spread to older long-time NH residents who won't be able to afford to stay in their homes due to education-driven RE taxes nor to move thanks to the escalating RE prices. I know RE developers and agents are salivating over the opportunities for growth, but we don't want NH looking like MA and NJ either.
Are the schools in NH that good compared to other states? NH spends about 17k/student. Maine 14k/student.
Is the education that much better?
In contrast NY spends 24k/student. Leaves much to be desired.
My point is, is the higher cost of education worth it? Are the schools proving themselves? Or should towns reign in their spending?
How much have property taxes gone up over the last ten years vs decades past?
Are the schools in NH that good compared to other states? NH spends about 17k/student. Maine 14k/student.
Is the education that much better?
In contrast NY spends 24k/student. Leaves much to be desired.
My point is, is the higher cost of education worth it? Are the schools proving themselves? Or should towns reign in their spending?
How much have property taxes gone up over the last ten years vs decades past?
I don't think there's much correlation between spending per pupil and quality of education. This webpage allows you to see spending in each school or district compared to the state average. https://ireport.education.nh.gov/
My taxes went up 60% in 8 years due to repairs/upgrades to the high school and a new teachers' contract.
My town pays in excess of $26,000.00 per student/yr. to the Conval school district. Insane. Something has to give.
A landowner with a vacant 1.6 acre lot valued & assessed at $58,300 pays $1,529.00/yr in taxes.
A landowner with 10.8 acres of vacant land in Current Use (2 separate adjoining lots to get over 10 acres) valued at $115,000, but assessed at $2,721.00 -- pays just $72.00/yr.
The owner of the 10.8 acre parcel has 6.5X more land yet pays 95% less in taxes.
All regular taxpayers in town (non CU owners) have to make up the difference in lost tax revenue to subsidize the CU landowners which adds $4.60 to the tax rate. The owner of the CU land cares nothing about school tax costs since it has virtually zero impact on their tax bill. This particular owner is very well off, and could easily pay the normal taxes.
Last edited by illtaketwoplease; 05-07-2021 at 11:24 AM..
My town pays in excess of $26,000.00 per student/yr. to the Conval school district. Insane. Something has to give.
If it were me, I would do a deep dive on the school budget and educate my fellow voters on how much they're spending vs other districts, and what they are (and are not) getting for their money (including student achievement).
If my fellow voters were OK with it after explaining it to them, I would move.
If it were me, I would do a deep dive on the school budget and educate my fellow voters on how much they're spending vs other districts, and what they are (and are not) getting for their money (including student achievement).
If my fellow voters were OK with it after explaining it to them, I would move.
Where are you moving to? Another home in NH, where the price of real estate and the number of enrolled students has skyrocketed in the past year? That's not going to produce enough tax savings to make the move cost-effective.
If it were me, I would do a deep dive on the school budget and educate my fellow voters on how much they're spending vs other districts, and what they are (and are not) getting for their money (including student achievement).
If my fellow voters were OK with it after explaining it to them, I would move.
Which voters would they be? The ones who own 75% of the land in town that is in current use, or the others who own the other 25% that pay most of the taxes? The 75% don't care because they are not impacted with the costs. The other 25% care and understand the problem and know the town is locked into contracts signed years ago. Part of the reason for the Conval lawsuit was the vocal 25% in my town and others.
Get the other 75% paying what everyone else does - or a realistic amount - and you'll see changes made right quick. They don't have any skin in the game and need to. It's a racket. School funding reform and current use reform need to go hand in hand.
** Note: I will stop talking about CU in this thread and will start one dedicated to the subject. For anyone who may have not followed my rants about the subject - I fully support land conservation and conservation easements - just not CU which people think is land conservation -- but really isn't.
Last edited by illtaketwoplease; 05-07-2021 at 01:29 PM..
Where are you moving to? Another home in NH, where the price of real estate and the number of enrolled students has skyrocketed in the past year? That's not going to produce enough tax savings to make the move cost-effective.
It's a big country, most likely there are several places that are a good, though never perfect, fit. Maybe NH, maybe not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by illtaketwoplease
Which voters would they be? The ones who own 75% of the land in town that is in current use, or the others who own the other 25% that pay most of the taxes? The 75% don't care because they are not impacted with the costs. The other 25% care and understand the problem and know the town is locked into contracts signed years ago. Part of the reason for the Conval lawsuit was the vocal 25% in my town and others.
Get the other 75% paying what everyone else does - or a realistic amount - and you'll see changes made right quick. They don't have any skin in the game and need to. It's a racket. School funding reform and current use reform need to go hand in hand.
** Note: I will stop talking about CU in this thread and will start one dedicated to the subject. For anyone who may have not followed my rants about the subject - I fully support land conservation and conservation easements - just not CU which people think is land conservation -- but really isn't.
Spending and source of revenue are different topics.
26k is a lot. Either your fellow voters are not aware of this, and open to change if they find out, or they're aware of the spending and are ok with it.
If they're not aware of it, make them aware, maybe they'll agree to bring spending down to something reasonable.
If they're aware of it and ok with it, you can expect more of the same in the future. Under those circumstances, I would move.
Spending and source of revenue are different topics.
Technically yes - but they are joined at the hip when it comes to real estate taxes.
Quote:
26k is a lot. Either your fellow voters are not aware of this, and open to change if they find out, or they're aware of the spending and are ok with it.
If they're not aware of it, make them aware, maybe they'll agree to bring spending down to something reasonable.
If only it was that easy. Our town is part of a group of towns comprising the CONVAL school system which are contractually obliged to certain levels of spending. We can't just get the spending down without breaking the school system apart and that just isn't happening. Not saying it shouldn't - but people fear the alternative of not having a school system. We are literally paying 2 teachers for one teacher position - one to teach and another who is retired and collecting a very nice pension plus benefits. With people moving in to the area over the years from MA and other liberal states - they see no problem driving up costs and spending other peoples money - just like the CU people have no problem with other people paying their way. These are both systems that are not sustainable.
Last edited by illtaketwoplease; 05-07-2021 at 05:51 PM..
Which voters would they be? The ones who own 75% of the land in town that is in current use, or the others who own the other 25% that pay most of the taxes?
Trees !
It's all about saving the trees.
Tree huggers. Don't cut down any trees the day after my new home was built.
Tree huggers. Don't cut down any trees the day after my new home was built.
Tongue in cheek for sure, but there are many lots in CU out there that are cyclically logged and therefore provide additional tax revenue via the timber tax. I walked a bunch of them over the last few months.
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