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EXACTLY and in cases of adultery more often than not it's just the female who gets buried up to her chest and stones cast at her until mercifully she finally dies
again - forget what the crime is. it's not my place to tell another group of people what their laws should be.
but how is electrocution any more advanced than stoning?
have you ever witnessed an execution in person here in the USA? out of sight, out of mind.
i did see that response coming. i definitely dont want to be more like them. but one good way to become more like them is to let them continue coming here and spread their influence. its a dilemma because you want to be about religious freedom, but what if a religion's belief system is dangerous to your country's future?
so, they are intolerant of other cultures in certain countries. there's 1 billion muslims around the world, but some countries that are predominantly muslim have some intolerant governments. there are intolerant governments that aren't muslim as well.
so the way to not become more like "them" (the intolerant governments of certain countries) is to become intolerant of allowing "them" (muslims that have little to do with those countries" to come here?
I'm sure the Mosque may be built, but I just want to see how NJians feel. 1/4th of the 911 deaths were people who lived in NJ, and the WTC was half owned by the state of NJ- So, what's your take?
Rallies over mosque near ground zero get heated - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100822/ap_on_re_us/us_nyc_mosque - broken link)
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The families of 911 victims have America's heart right now in this. It would do the Muslim community a vast world of help if they would honor the request of the 911 victim's families and simply move it somewhere else. Why not just grant the victim's that mercy, it would help the Muslim image.
Not that its location is ironic enough, but this mosque is 15 story's! A freakin Mega Mosque!
I've posted a lot about this on the POC thread, and feel about mosqued out, but since I'm a lifelong Jersey girl and a survivor of the WTC attacks, I'll take a stab at putting out my throughts here.
Re the 911 families, please take a few minutes to click on this link to familiarize yourself with these 911 families who don't oppose the mosque.
Re the size of the mosque: 13 stories (or 15, I've seen both, but the original NY Times articles that were published before the negative NY Post article set off the controversry said 13) is pretty big for that type of facility, IMO, and the Upper East Side Jewish Community Center after which they are modeling it is only 9 stories. However, bear in mind the size and complexity of the property whose proximity to this mosque is at the crux of the arguments.
This is a 13/15 story glass rectangular building, I'm guessing 100 feet wide along a short city block (I've been on the block a number of times, saw the Muslims going in and out for more than a year. No bombs, no beheadings that I noticed). On the street immediately to the south are buildings far taller--Silverstein's WTC 7, at 47 stories, and the Verizon Building, which is also 40-something.
Then you have the World Trade Center itself. At the northwest corner, One WTC's steel is already in the 30's and will be 1776 feet tall with its spires (88 actual floors, I believe). At the southeast corner is Four WTC, already above street level and going for 61 stories. Along that eastern side will be Two and Three, at 78 and 71 stories respectively.
So just how "big" is that 15-story mosque two blocks from the northern perimeter of the WTC, physically and metaphorically? I don't see what they've conquered.
What it really comes down to are the Muslims. As they sing in The Mob Song in Disney's Beauty and The Beast, "We don't like/what we don't/understand, in fact it scares us." Here in New Jersey and across the creek in the city, we already know that there are probably terrorist-minded Muslims living amongst us. They were here before 1993 and I've no doubt that they still are. It's a part of reality in this time and place. The danger, and the wrongfulness, is in attributing the aims of a subset of one group to the entire group. I already know how this works. When asked in the 1990's why they would kill American soldiers in Somalia on a food and rescue mission, Osama bin Laden replied, "Why should we believe that's why the Americans were there? Everywhere Americans go, they kill Muslim children and occupy Muslim lands." This guy's got thousands of followers who believe that the aim of the United States is to wipe out the Muslim world. If, as I am lead to believe from reading the POC threads, we hang on to the belief that Muslims are out to impose religious law on/take over the United States and are therefore evil by virtue of being Muslim, how isn't that just the mirror image of what the terrorists think of us?
Maybe it's easier to lump people together than to dig a little deeper into the complexities of humanity and resolve to get to know people as individuals and not groups, but it doesn't seem to be working. At any rate, we are going to be witnessing more and more how Muslims are influenced by American culture, not just the other way around. They are going to have to interact with us as much as we are going to have to interact with them, and people are people.
I just do wish people would stifle their emotions a bit on this issue and at least get a rudimentary education about the people associated with the mosque instead of getting wild stories from Internet sites with agendas. It blows me away that we read repeatedly how if these Muslims have their way, we are one step closer to wearing burqas, when we've never seen a photo of the wife of the Park Place imam even wearing a head scarf.
Thank you and sorry Islam is behind what happened at 9/11..I've yet to hear any one of power & authority in Islam make a true heartfelt apology..I'm not talking your average people who are Muslim and were just as horrified as us..I'm talking the top....
I do remember Muslims around the world rejoicing and having a party in the streets they were so happy....
Talk about ignorant...hahaha...guess it comes down to which side of the coin you're on..I could say the same about some of the posts in this thread...
But....I won't stoop to that because for one it's a personal attack and against the TOS and last time I checked it is the USA and everyone is entitled to their opinions....
Serious question--who do you consider to be at the top of Islam that you think should apologize, and why specifically should they apologize? We all know that most of the heads of state of predominantly Muslim countries condemned the attacks after 9/11, but wouldn't an apology from them be kind of weird if they weren't behind it or didn't support the actions? (Of course, one could argue that even if these governmental types felt differently, the public statements decrying the attacks were politically expected and diplomatic routine.)
I also know of a celebration in a Palestinian community in NJ on the night of 9/11 that you don't know about. It was never in the papers. The police kept it contained for fear that if the outlying communities knew, they would come into that city and there would be a bloodbath. The reason I know about this is because a Muslim coworker of mine, also a WTC survivor that day, went to confront the celebrants with two other Muslims WTC survivors. The cops put them in a cop car, drove them a few blocks away, told them they understood their position but explained that they didn't want anything to erupt into violence and then let them go home.
I am telling that story to try to get through to people the importance of breaking it down, of not making people into a "they".
i've yet to hear any woman apologize for all the accidents on the turnpike either - but it's clear that their poor driving causes all of them.why the hell should anyone of "power & authority in Islam" make a heartfelt apology for something THEY DID NOT DO? seriously? do you not see what's blatently wrong with your logic?
you remember them rejoicing? please show me this, because weeks after it happened, it came out that the videos were from different times altogether having nothing to do with the day. there were all sorts of holes poked in those reports. so again - i'd like you to show me where the individuals were celebrating, and what they were celebrating.
everyone is entitled to opinions. and i'm sorry you feel as though it's a personal attack on you. the word ignorant isn't an insult to you, it's just the word to properly describe when someone is projecting a view based on uninformed information.
so your views are based on believing that the Islamic religious text preaches hate and violence and that muslims were verifiable seen around the world rejoicing the attacks. do i have that much correct?
and subsequently, you'd like to be able to have these views without admitting that they are prejudice.
well, i've read on the internet that black people are lazy and are mostly criminals. asians are bad drivers. new jersey folks all love orange fake tanner and hitting "the shore" to go a fist bump. people from Pennsylvania cling to their guns and bible. new yorkers are all a-holes. 2nd amendment proponents want to overthrow the government with m-16s. women don't work as hard as men at the office because they are more family oriented. catholics all want to kill anyone who performs abortions. all priests molest little boys. jews are cheap.
i mean...i could keep going. i'm not prejudice, people have told me all these things, so they have to be true!
Don't back peddle, you accused me of being ignorant because of my views which are worlds apart from yours...Too you I may be ignorant but to someone who shares my views I wouldn't be......
This country, the USA, will be destroyed from within, the more I read the more I'm convinced of it.
I am not now or never have been "politically correct"..I call it as I see it...if that makes me prejudiced in your eyes ..well let's just say I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
Manhatten is a big place..there are plenty of other places to build this mosque
the people who want to build this lack all sensitivity.
I don't have a problem with building the mosque but I have a serious issue with the piece of real estate chosen.
The one thing this thread does show me is there isn't much of a middle road..posters are either for it or against it.
You can post all your rhetoric from now until the moon turns blue it won't alter my feelings on the matter.
again - forget what the crime is. it's not my place to tell another group of people what their laws should be.
but how is electrocution any more advanced than stoning?
have you ever witnessed an execution in person here in the USA? out of sight, out of mind.
So you're okay with people being exocuted because they committed adultary or forgot their prayers....whatever your feelings on death penalties are at least we have a long long appeals process in place and NJ doesn't have the death penalty anymore
So you're okay with people being exocuted because they committed adultary or forgot their prayers....whatever your feelings on death penalties are at least we have a long long appeals process in place and NJ doesn't have the death penalty anymore
Its a crime in some states , you can get up to 20 years. This Country is just as bad as the ones were fighting against. Go to the library and read up on American history , don't read anything on the internet. As the internet can easily be manipulated into false facts. There's nothing wrong with Muslims , if you had a Muslim friend you might see that , although i wouldn't know if you did have one. But i would assume if you did , you would understand them more. Stop believing the fear stories and false facts , i know how that is and works. I used to watch Fox News in the days after 9/11. I grew out of it years ago after fact checked proved them wrong.
Its a crime in some states , you can get up to 20 years. This Country is just as bad as the ones were fighting against. Go to the library and read up on American history , don't read anything on the internet. As the internet can easily be manipulated into false facts. There's nothing wrong with Muslims , if you had a Muslim friend you might see that , although i wouldn't know if you did have one. But i would assume if you did , you would understand them more. Stop believing the fear stories and false facts , i know how that is and works. I used to watch Fox News in the days after 9/11. I grew out of it years ago after fact checked proved them wrong.
Nex I understand what you are saying but to compare things that happened 200 years ago to today doesn't wash.
You would be truly amazed at my circle of friends and the fabric that makes up my family. People shouldn't assume
I don't hate muslims and they do have the right to have a mosque, it's just in this instance I think it's insensitive...thats all I'm saying
so, they are intolerant of other cultures in certain countries. there's 1 billion muslims around the world, but some countries that are predominantly muslim have some intolerant governments. there are intolerant governments that aren't muslim as well.
so the way to not become more like "them" (the intolerant governments of certain countries) is to become intolerant of allowing "them" (muslims that have little to do with those countries" to come here?
you're logic is solid!
the muslims coming here have everything to do with the harsh islamic rule in other countries. they are part of a plan to infiltrate our nation and take it over from within. when the numbers go up, more problems will happen. look at england, france, russia, etc. etc. etc. not all of them are technically hostile, but as the numbers grow the problems will grow also.
my logic is solid. it isnt "intolerant" to have an immigration policy that considers the background and beliefs of the immigrants. we want immigrants to come here to benefit our country, not to destroy our country.
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