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I somewhat disagree for several reasons. Not only do I think AC is a significant city in SouthNJ (particularly the shore), but I also don't think it requires 'holding the region' to support a team (as in, not just AC itself but its metro and immediate surround).
I think saying AC is 'just a city in SouthNJ' doesn't make much sense considering SouthNJ doesn't have much in the way of cities to begin with.
I would argue AC has more significance than Trenton outside of political presence. AC's metro continues to grow and it still remains the most-known shore resort in the state. The eastern shore towns are their own entities and most of them aren't even in Philly's metro.
I don't think Philly influence means SouthNJ couldn't support a team, but the further away from Philly may be easier. It's hard to establish a new team in a dominated market anyway but I still think it can be done.
From the original post, it was stated: "If so what sport? (EX: NBA, NFL, MLS, NHL, MLB). I was referring to sport leagues of that size.
South Jersey isn't that big, that even if you reach the shoreline going southeast, there is still Philly influence. About the only place in the state where there isn't Philly or NY influence, maybe the Pine Barrens, NW NJ, and lowly habitated areas.
I've watched NBC40's newscast and they cover Philly sports, and no NY sports. They do include Stockton College stuff as well locally.
As far as metro definitions, AC's metro is Atlantic County. It's about half the population of Camden County. Cape May county is its own MSA (Ocean City)
Commutership to Philly is low, and most residents probably work locally. However, I'd wager that intra SJ commutership from towns like Hammonton to Mt.Laurel likely isn't being counted. From personal experience, I know many from PA that have second homes in Atlantic County by the shore. I doubt the Office Management Bureau that defines the metro definitions considers that, and is likely only considering commutership from Atlantic City to Philadelphia, and deciding not to include AC in Philadelphia's MSA or CSA.
Another thing is tourism revenue into AC comes mostly from Northern NJ and New York (as still more customers from that area than Philly), so that maybe another against Atlantic County in Philadelphia's MSA or CSA, not that I agree with it.
Commutership to Philly is low, and most residents probably work locally. However, I'd wager that intra SJ commutership from towns like Hammonton to Mt.Laurel likely isn't being counted. From personal experience, I know many from PA that have second homes in Atlantic County by the shore. I doubt the Office Management Bureau that defines the metro definitions considers that, and is likely only considering commutership from Atlantic City to Philadelphia, and deciding not to include AC in Philadelphia's MSA or CSA.
The OMB can be very misleading at times when it comes to defining MSA and CSA statistics for the Philadelphia area. Counties like Mercer County, NJ are put into the New York CSA even though it meets the CSA threshold for the Philly MSA. A matter a fact there is more commuting to Philly MSA than there is to the New York MSA from Mercer County. As for South Jersey, commuting has increased in Atlantic County and Cumberland County to Philly MSA since 2000. The OMB rules now for MSA and CSA requirements is that a county can reach the 25% or 15% with any county within the metropolitan area) It doesn't have to be just the main principle city for commuting requirements anymore). It wouldn't surprise me to see any of those counties added back to Philly MSA or CSA when the OMB releases the new MSA and CSA statistics in 2013.
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Another thing is tourism revenue into AC comes mostly from Northern NJ and New York (as still more customers from that area than Philly), so that maybe another against Atlantic County in Philadelphia's MSA or CSA, not that I agree with it.
The tourism revenue generated by people from the New York MSA comes mostly from casinos and hotels. People from the New York MSA are typically traveling from a further distance to get to Atlantic City and is more likely to stay there longer because they may not go to Atlantic City as often as someone from the Philadelphia area might have. A person from the New York MSA is more likely to buy a hotel room at one of the casinos vs someone from the Philly MSA who is more likely to spend a day in AC on the beach then go home. As for the entire Jersey Shore Region of Atlantic and Cape May County there's no denying that most of the revenue from the Jersey Shore of those 2 counties are coming mostly from the Philly MSA and are generating a huge portion of the tourism revenue. If you don't believe me you should go to that part of the Jersey Shore right know and see for yourself.
Last edited by gwillyfromphilly; 07-08-2011 at 08:21 PM..
I've always wondered why NBC randomly has an affiliate out there haha. I think it's the only Big 3 station located in-state. Back before the digital tv conversion, I could just barely pick it up, it was really fuzzy. It doesn't show up at all anymore though, and we don't get it on fios.
I could see a pro team at the Jersey Shore more particularly Atlantic City, maybe an NHL or a MLB team. The Philadelphia sports market is big enough to support two teams in one league. The Bay Area has two teams in MLB and the NFL and it is a smaller market than the Philadelphia market. A team at the Jersey shore could be a nice fit I think.
While I love this thought, it's nothing more than a pipe dream.
I think a MLS Soccer team with a stadium on the Camden waterfront would be very successful and would be supported by both South Jerseyans and Philadelphians. It is easy to get to by train etc. (Patco, Riverline, NJ Transit Buses, Ferry) and would be much closer to the core of the metro area in Philadelphia and Camden County then the Philadelphia Union that plays in Chester PA.
I think a MLS Soccer team with a stadium on the Camden waterfront would be very successful and would be supported by both South Jerseyans and Philadelphians. It is easy to get to by train etc. (Patco, Riverline, NJ Transit Buses, Ferry) and would be much closer to the core of the metro area in Philadelphia and Camden County then the Philadelphia Union that plays in Chester PA.
my friends that live in downtown philly have season tickets to the Union, and say it's very easy to get to when I've met them there. I don't see how Philly area could support two MLS teams. NY may get a 2nd team in Queens, but no way Philly will get a 2nd team when it took them this long to get their 1st.
my friends that live in downtown philly have season tickets to the Union, and say it's very easy to get to when I've met them there. I don't see how Philly area could support two MLS teams. NY may get a 2nd team in Queens, but no way Philly will get a 2nd team when it took them this long to get their 1st.
I disagree, I believe a second MLS would do great.
From one ranking that I saw, Orlando was 26th, which I guess is marginally "major metro".
AC metro was ranked 166th - hardly qualifying it for a major sports franchise. Green Bay is the only sports city that is anywhere near that small and only has a team based on historical reasons.
I think it's unwise to look at simply population numbers. It's not like AC's metro is all there is for 100 miles. Any sports influence in AC's metro doesn't have to stop at its borders.
(The same way there are Devils fans in NY, and still plenty of Ranger fans in NJ etc.).
Right now Philly is the dominate niche market, but I truly think that if a new team were introduced to the area it would begin to gain influence. Of course, you would have to wait a generation or so b/c the current fan base would most likely be die-hard loyalists to a Philly team (naturally).
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Originally Posted by avg12
From the original post, it was stated: "If so what sport? (EX: NBA, NFL, MLS, NHL, MLB). I was referring to sport leagues of that size.
South Jersey isn't that big, that even if you reach the shoreline going southeast, there is still Philly influence. About the only place in the state where there isn't Philly or NY influence, maybe the Pine Barrens, NW NJ, and lowly habitated areas.
I've watched NBC40's newscast and they cover Philly sports, and no NY sports. They do include Stockton College stuff as well locally.
As far as metro definitions, AC's metro is Atlantic County. It's about half the population of Camden County. Cape May county is its own MSA (Ocean City)
Commutership to Philly is low, and most residents probably work locally. However, I'd wager that intra SJ commutership from towns like Hammonton to Mt.Laurel likely isn't being counted. From personal experience, I know many from PA that have second homes in Atlantic County by the shore. I doubt the Office Management Bureau that defines the metro definitions considers that, and is likely only considering commutership from Atlantic City to Philadelphia, and deciding not to include AC in Philadelphia's MSA or CSA.
Of course there's Philly influence (I'm not sure why that argument keeps popping up). But AC definitely has its own identity.
Maybe a WNBA team at Atlantic city. I could see that.
I actually agree w/ that.
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I could see that.
