Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Extending New York’s No. 7 subway line to the Secaucus Junction train station would give commuters greater access to Times Square, Grand Central Station and other desirable Manhattan locations while boosting bus capacity at the Secaucus station and providing thousands of new seats into New York to accommodate a growing transit ridership, a study released Wednesday says.
The 47-page report released by the New York City Economic Development Corporation reignites an argument for a tunnel project that one year ago was declared dead by former Metropolitan Transportation Authority chairman Joseph Lhota.
The plan, pitched by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg in February 2011 – four months after Governor Christie shut down an $8.7 billion NJ Transit plan to build a mass transit tunnel linking North Jersey and New York – called for extending the No. 7 Subway from West 34th Street and 11th Avenue to Secaucus, where NJ Transit’s rail hub would be expanded.
The city hired the consultant Parsons Brinckerhoff in early 2011 to study the merits of extending the subway, shortly after New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie canceled the planned "Access to the Region's Core" cross-river tunnel project, which was a blow to those who believe the region is hampered by the limited capacity for trains crossing the Hudson between Manhattan and the suburbs.
"It's been a century since there was a new rail tunnel under the Hudson, and demand for travel between New Jersey and Manhattan is growing rapidly and quickly exceeding the capacity of existing transit infrastructure," Mr. Bloomberg said on Wednesday through a spokeswoman. "The lack of new transit investment is creating a serious and urgent threat to New York City's economic competitiveness."
Mr. Bloomberg went on to say that extending the train was "a promising potential solution" and that the city looks forward to "continuing to discuss the option."
Try telling that to the MTA.
An agency spokesman's response to the study's release was a single emailed sentence: "We don't see this as an economically viable idea."
That is, if anything, less dismissive than the last time the MTA threw cold water on the notion of sending the subway system across city—and state—borders for the first time.
Last April, then-MTA Chairman Joseph Lhota (who is currently running to succeed Mr. Bloomberg as mayor) declared there was "not a chance" the extension plan would happen.
"I told the mayor this, I told the deputy mayor this: I can't see this happening in our lifetime," Mr. Lhota said then.
But Mr. Lhota is gone now. Wednesday marked the 100th day since he departed as chairman to run for the Republican nomination for mayor. Gov. Andrew Cuomo has yet to announce a permanent replacement.
Under the proposal examined by Parsons Brinckerhoff, the No. 7 train would cross the river through two new tunnels and connect with the existing commuter rail station in Secaucus.
The extension would improve access from the suburbs through Midtown, the yet-to-be-built Hudson Yards development on the West Side and along the existing No. 7 train corridor into Queens.
The route the Parsons Brinckerhoff study examined would largely follow the path that was to have been followed by the ARC tunnels, from Secaucus, through the Palisades, deep beneath the Hudson River and into Midtown, where it would connect with the future endpoint of the existing No. 7 subway, just below 34th Street.
The project would require that one part of the current westward extension of the No. 7 line be revived: A planned station at 10th Avenue that was eliminated from the extension because of its projected cost would be restored. The move would also require improvements at busy stations already served by the No. 7 line, including Grand Central, Times Square and Fifth Avenue/Bryant Park.
A No. 7 train extension could support 128,000 riders per day, with up to 30 trains per hour during the morning and evening rush, the study says. It would take about 16 minutes for trains to run from the Secaucus station to Grand Central.
The extension would not interfere with the other major river-crossing project that has been championed since the demise of the ARC project: Amtrak's Gateway project, which would add new tunnels to connect the northeast corridor lines in New Jersey to Penn Station in Manhattan.
An issue not addressed in the study is one New Jersey Mr. Christie cited in killing the ARC tunnel, the move that gave rise to interest in the No. 7 train solution in the first place: cost.
The Parsons Brinckerhoff study didn't offer any estimate of the capital or operating costs of running the line to Secaucus.
Its a joke and wouldn't fix the regional issues , this would many benefit developers in Hudson Yards and Hoboken. The Gateway Project would fix the regional issues along with allow for the Regional Rail system in New Jersey , Western Hudson Valley , Eastern PA to be restored and fed into New York Penn Station and then onto Sunnyside which is where they store the trains , it would also allow for Amtrak to expand its Intercity & High Speed Rail Network which is critical for the Northeastern Economy growing and collapsing or becoming stagnant. The Gateway Project is halfway studied and some parts just need funding , the 7 train is in the early stages... The PATH that line chooses is the same Path Amtrak wants to reuse , and the NEC expansion takes that space so its a silly overlooked expensive mistake.
Gateway Project-NEC Upgrade
-Expanded Penn Station/Penn Station South
-2 New Tunnel , 6 Rehabbed Tunnels
-2 Replacement Bridges over the Hackensack
-Sunnyside Yard Upgrade
-Catenary Replacement between New Brunswick and New Rochelle
-Newark Overpasses replaced
-Hunter Interlock Upgraded/Allows for more Raritan Valley Trains and restored train service to West Trenton , Flemington and Allentown
-Kearny JCT Upgraded/Allows for more Morris&Essex Trains , Restored Kingsland Branch and Harrison infill station , allows for doubling the amount of Amtrak and NJT NEC trains into NY without conflicting with entering Morris&Essex Trains
-Allows for Higher Speeds for Express trains up to 110mph between Newark and New York
-Second Phase of the Gateway is to Grand Central Terminal
-Replacement of the Pelham Bay Bridge
-Elizabeth Viaduct realignment
-adding 1 more track between South Elizabeth to Newark Airport
-adding 1 more track between Newark Penn station and Kearny JCT and 3 New Tracks for Amtrak from Kearny JCT to New York Penn
-Restored Hell Gate line Service , along with 4 stations in the Bronx as part of Phase 1 , and 3 in Phase 2
-Overall the NEC/Gateway Project would service a population of 30 Million once you factor in all the connecting projects that would able to get built due to the capacity upgrade.
All these New Lines would come with the Gateway Project / NEC Upgrade
Morris & Essex Network Expansions tied to the Gateway Project
Pompton Branch Sparta-Route 15 Park & Ride
Ogdenburg
Butler
I-287 Park / Ride
Pompton Plains
Pequannock
Wayne Town Center
Mountain View-Wayne
Wayne-Route 23
Little Falls
Montclair State University
Montclair Heights
Mountain Avenue
Upper Montclair
Watchung Avenue
Walnut Street
Bay Street
Glen Ridge
Bloomfield
Watsessing Avenue Ampere
Newark-Broad St Harrison
Some Service to New York Penn Station & some to Hoboken
Morristown line Philpsburg - Main Street
Philpsburg - US 22 / NJ 57 Park / Ride
Washington
Hackettstown
Mount Olive
Netcong
Lake Hopatcong
Mount Arlington
Dover
Denville
Mount Tabor
Morris Plains
Morristown
Convent Station
Madison
Chatham
Summit
Short Hills
Millburn
Maplewood
South Orange
Orange
Brick Church
Newark Board Street Harrison
Hoboken Terminal
Lackawanna Cut-Off Scranton
Tobyhanna
Pocono Mountain
Analomink
East Stroudsburg
Delaware Water Gap
Blairstown
Andover
Lake Hopatcong
Mount Arlington
Dover
Denville
Mount Tabor
Morris Plains
Morristown
Convent Station
Madison
Chatham
Summit
Short Hills
Millburn
Maplewood
South Orange
Orange
Brick Church
Newark Board Street Harrison
Hoboken Terminal
Lackawanna Express Syracuse
Cortland
Whitney Point
Binghamton
Hallstead
Clarks Summit
Scranton
Pocono Mountain
East Stroudsburg
Delaware Water Gap
Dover
Morristown
Summit
Newark Broad
New York Penn Station
Kingsland Branch
Hoboken Terminal Harrison East
Kearny
Kingsland
Lyndhurst
Delawanna
Passaic
Clifton South Paterson
Paterson North Paterson
Hawthorne Transit Center
Glen Rock
Ridgewood
Ho-Ho-Kus
Waldwick
Allendale
Ramsey-Main St.
Ramsey-Route 17
Mahwah
Suffern Hillburn
Raritan Valley Network Expansions tied to Hunter/Kearny JCT Upgrade
West Trenton line
West Trenton Transit Center I-95 Park / Ride
Pennington
Hopewell
Belle Mead
Hillsborough
Bridgewater
Bound Brook
Dunellen
Plainfield
Netherwood
Fanwood
Westfield
Garwood
Cranford
Roselle Park
Union Hillside
Weequahic
Newark Penn station
Hoboken Terminal
Raritan Valley line Phillipsburg
Bloomsbury
Ludlow
Hampton
Glen Gardner
High Bridge
Annandale
Lebanon
White House
North Branch
Raritan
Somerville
Bridgewater
Bound Brook
Dunellen
Plainfield
Netherwood
Fanwood
Westfield
Garwood
Cranford
Roselle Park
Union Hillside
Weequahic
Newark Penn station Future Rush Hour Service to New York
Hoboken Terminal (Rush hour only)
Flemington Branch Lambertville (Seasonal) Flemington
Neshanic Station
Flagtown
Manville
Bridgewater
Bound Brook
Dunellen
Plainfield
Netherwood
Fanwood
Westfield
Garwood
Cranford
Roselle Park
Union Hillside
Weequahic
Newark Penn station
Hoboken Terminal
Western Express
Harrisburg Hershey
Lebanon
Reading
Allentown
Bethlehem
Easton
Philipsburg
Raritan
Cranford
Newark Penn Station
New York Penn Station
Northeast Corridor Network Expansions tied in with everything
MOM Network
Northern Connector Cape May
Rio Grande
Cape May Courthouse
Winslow JCT
Lakehurst
Lakewood
Freehold Boro - Throckmorton Street
New Brunswick
Metropark
Rahway
Newark International Airport
Newark Penn Station
Secaucus JCT
New York Penn Station
Red Bank Branch Lakehurst
Jackson
Lakewood
Howell - Glen Road
Howell - Route 33
Eatontown
Shrewsbury
Red Bank
Middletown
Hazlet
Aberdeen-Matawan Laurence Harbor
South Amboy
Perth Amboy
Woodbridge
Avenel
Rahway
Linden
Midtown Elizabeth
North Elizabeth
Newark Airport
Newark Penn
Secaucus JCT
New York Penn Station
Jamesburg Branch Forked River
Toms River
Holiday City
Lakehurst
Jackson
Lakewood
Howell - Glen Road
Freehold
Freehold Boro - Throckmorton Street
Manalapan
Jamesburg
South Brunswick
New Brunswick
Edison
Metchun
Metropark
Rahway
Linden
Midtown Elizabeth
North Elizabeth
Newark Airport
Newark Penn station
Secaucus JCT
New York Penn
Amboy Branch Bordentown Town Center
Robbinsville
East Windsor
Jamesburg
Helmetta
Spotswood
Route 18 Park & Ride
Madison Park
South Amboy West
Perth Amboy
Woodbridge
Avenel
Rahway
Linden
Midtown Elizabeth
North Elizabeth
Newark Airport
Newark Penn
Hoboken Terminal
Gateway is a better idea than 7. Gateway eliminates a transfer for Bergen, Main, and Pascack Valley line passengers. The 7 requires a transfer for everyone.
The MTA really messed up the 7 already with the westward extension. It should have gone south then west (probably too expensive because there's so much stuff already there). Now if it goes to Penn, to get to the east side you'll have to go west two long blocks, north, then east two long blocks just to get to Port Authority.
The MTA can barely keep the NYC subways running, facing a $5b funding shortage, they hit the jackpot with hurricane Sandy. Likewise Amtrak is a basket case and is essentially a federal jobs program, they can barely keep their trackage maintained.
The Bloomberg administration’s hope of extending the 7 train to New Jersey is dead on arrival.
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority pulled the brakes on the proposal Wednesday hours after the city’s Economic Development Corporation released a report hyping the benefits of the cross-Hudson link.
“We don't see this as an economically viable idea,” said MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz, whose agency had promised earlier in the day to study the “interesting” idea.
The "Bergen Loop" is even less certain than Gateway getting funding, and even if it does, we're still competing for slots into NYC aren't infinite. Amtrak will increase service, NJT NEC will increase service, coast line will increase, M&E will increase - then, RVL, Bergen, Main, PVL, and Port Jervis trains are competing for limited space into the city? There is no way Amtrak wants that. Plus Penn Station boarding and track capacity are limited.
I think 7 to Secaucus with a stop at the bottom of the NJ palisades would be great and a complement to Gateway.
The "Bergen Loop" is even less certain than Gateway getting funding, and even if it does, we're still competing for slots into NYC aren't infinite. Amtrak will increase service, NJT NEC will increase service, coast line will increase, M&E will increase - then, RVL, Bergen, Main, PVL, and Port Jervis trains are competing for limited space into the city? There is no way Amtrak wants that. Plus Penn Station boarding and track capacity are limited.
I think 7 to Secaucus with a stop at the bottom of the NJ palisades would be great and a complement to Gateway.
Everyone will get more slots into New York Penn Station once the Old Tunnels are closed and overhauled and reopened and Penn Station itself is expanded you can handle 200trains per hour which is 100 more then once the new tunnels open. Amtrak added the loop back into the Gateway and added in the Kingsland Branch into Kearny JCT... By 2025 It should look like this , 100 slots for Amtrak and NJT and 100 slots for MNRR and LIRR , by 2030 it should be 100 slots for NJT , 60 slots for Amtrak and 140 slots for MNRR/LIRR....the other increases depend on the NEC upgrade on the NY side which is underway as we speak so its pretty much in the bag.
The MTA can barely keep the NYC subways running, facing a $5b funding shortage, they hit the jackpot with hurricane Sandy. Likewise Amtrak is a basket case and is essentially a federal jobs program, they can barely keep their trackage maintained.
Amtrak only receives 1.8 Billion to maintain its tracks , the average European or a country of similar size pumps in between 9-20 Billion a year for National Railway Projects. Highways , Roads and Airports which are supposed to operate either privately or through taxes receive close to 300 billion. Amtrak Ridership keeps climbing , if given more money they would spend every penny wisely...they always have. The Northeastern Master Plan would service every Major City and secondary city , along with the big tourist hubs. Amtrak has already destoried the Market shares in the Northeast Corridor region , most Intercity or Regional trips are by train and not car or plane anymore....other corridors like the Empire , Keystone and Knowledge Corridor are seeing similar results from investments in Rail which means less Air congestion and more long distance flights servicing the Northeast along with less regional Air noise , the short flights are slowly being eliminated.
Northeastern High Speed / Intercity Network
Current System Size : 1,509 Mi
Size by 2040 : 2,910 Mi+
Current Lines : 4 Trunk Lines with 2 secondary lines
Lines by 2040 : 9 trunk lines with 8 secondary lines
Current Stations : 95
Stations by 2040 : 191
Current Hub Stations : 8
Hub Stations by 2040 : 20
Current Ridership : 51,400
Projected Ridership by 2030 : 127 Million a year or 350,000 daily
Current Top Speed on Trunk lines : 160mph
Top Speed on Trunk Lines by 2030 : 220mph (350Km/h)
Top Speed on Secondary lines : 125mph (201Km/h)
Current Northeastern US Population : 54.3 Million
Northeastern US Population by 2050 : 80.3 Million
Cost : 150 Billion $ - Upgrades to Current Network & Expansions
Current Network Revenue : 1.2 Billion $
Projected Network Revenue by 2040 : 5.2 Billion $
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
