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Have to love socialist liberals trying to tell everyone what to do and control your life. Hopefully the next GOP prez repeals Obamacare.
Libs, I just smoked a cuban cigar I bought in Canada.
What does Obamacare have to do with e-cigs being illegal in NJ (with republican governor, btw). It was also Dem who finally legalized medical marijuana in NJ, and republican governor who held it up for so long.
Too distracted by my nick to pay a little attention to the links I provided, aren't you?
The first one delivered proof that passive vaping isn't damaging anyone.
The last two are from independent scientific sources.
(Btw I'm proud of my nick and what goes with it.)
E-cigarettes and their proponents are not to blame for this. Blame the time if you need to.
You see, they started making e-cigs in China not before 2004. E-cig entered Eu market in 2006 and US market in 2007. The long term use/exposure would require monitoring and collecting results for decade/s.
So, whether we like it or not, from the scientific point of view, we vapers are kind of guinea pigs.
However, that's the choice we have made. Because our life is what's going on in the meantime, and while the science is collecting its evidence, we are collecting experiences of thousands upon thousands of people like us.
And they are nothing short of spectacular!
Thing is, if I wait for another decade or two for the final proof of "actual health impacts" I may end up like my father who died at 63 (trombosis).
Why didn't I just quit like you did? Why couldn't I?
Well, heaven knows I had tried. And tried. Then got tired of it. Then tried again. My tobacco abstinence periods lasted anywhere from 3 days to almost 2 years. During that longest one I came close to depression, gained 30 pounds and was rather slow to grasp things. Not really fancy, especially when changing jobs and having to be very good at the new one. And I made it all without smoking, only to relapse to tobacco again, afterwards when everything was just fine again. Go figure.
It seems that we are not all cut the same way (Simple and obvious fact, many folks seem to be oblivious of. And that is what boggles my mind.)
We aren't so knowledgeable about addictions.
Science is still in the dark about what exactly makes some heavy smokers successfully quit cold turkey while others fail. My best friend who made it doesn't really understand my struggling, so I don't expect some random internet stranger to be able to.
To those who quit cold turkey or for whom generally ineffective NRTs have had some effect (rare enough, but happens!), more power! However, there's a portion of smokers who simply can't. And if they try, they experience symptoms described above (some or all of them).
What they need is a harm reduction. And that's what e-cig really is – a harm reduction product.
Which brings us to
That's because FDA and similar agencies in other countries are slow like snails. Perhaps you should ask them why. E-cigarette is an extremely simple device. If FDA appreciated its benefits like it should have from the start, there would have already been regulations put in place, manufacture encouraged and e-cig facilities all over US.
Back to the present time: at the moment there are four ex smokers who have been vaping for a year in my house. Nobody has had any symptoms of anything bad whatsoever. Besides usual no ash, no odor, we all feel better and we are one average pension (monthly) richer.
I ocassionally go to ECF forum (a huge place with lots of folks some heavy vaping since 2008 or so).
Half of those spend much more e-liquid than I do daily. Nobody has reported any problems (except those who get carried away and buy too much new stuff and then come back moaning how much money they spent. But they love every minute of it, anyway
So, in the absence of any long-time results of monitoring e-liquid use, we've done our own cost/benefit analysis and we believe e-cigarette is the best thing that has ever happened to the population of smokers. Having started learning IM, it was only most logical step for me to promote the products my family and I enjoy the great benefits of. Hence my nick: switchtoecig (and, btw, I am proud of it! )
I beg your pardon? Cigarettes have more than 4000 ingredients, 50 carcinogens among them. Would you care to be more specific, please? Or you just took this from a random journalist whose homework was to write something bad about e-cigarette?
Tobacco cigarette industry makes huge profits; count in the tax revenue but don't forget pharmaceutical NRTs. Whenever you read something bad about e-cigs, in 99 percent of cases it's interest of the three powers above that is being defended there. Not public health interests! Maybe there's one percent of cases in which Chinese messed something up. And that's a big maybe, too.
Besides, nic e-juice is easy to DIY.
For people who aren't familiar with the subject, it all comes down to who they choose to believe.
You believe FDA?
Fine.
How about this?
”If all the smokers in Britain stopped smoking cigarettes and started smoking e-cigarettes we would save 5 million deaths in people who are alive today”
End Quote
Professor John Britton
Royal College of Physicians
Not a single person in e-cig community I've heard saying that e-cigs are better than no cigs. I think they should be treated and regulated like harm reduction products, BUT without letting big tobacco, big tax and big pharma mess up with them to protect their own selfish interests (and not in the interests of those they have been so dilligently pretending to protect!)
Read all of your statements that I bolded. By your own words, no one knows what "vaping" will do long term. There are no actual standards since no one is regulating it yet and gee, the Chinese may occasionally mess up and put something nasty in it. Finally, you think that e-cgs should be regulated.
Let me make myself VERY clear here...
I don't care one iota what you do in your own home/car/outside. I don't care if you want to "vape" every waking moment of your day. I DO care if you "vape" next to me at work, in a restaurant or other public place, etc. I agree 100% that all evidence would point to e-cigs being safer than regular cigs. However, as you said, they aren't safer than "no cigs". If this is what you need to do to stay off of regular cigs, than more power to you. I just don't think you have a right to "vape" in a restaurant near my kids. Hence, my position that when it comes to public places, e-cigs should be treated the same as regular cigs. NJ bans smoking in public places, than e-cigs should be banned in public places. If it is eventually proven 100% conclusive that "vaping" causes zero harm, than it's a different discussion. Until then, you shouldn't be allowed to "vape" in public. That's my only argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myrc60
I have been smoke-free for 3 years even though I never intended to give up cigarettes. Smokers are gonna smoke; shouldn't they (I) have the option to smoke something less harmful? Would you rather I suffer with smoker ailments for the rest of my life?
4 ingredients are in my e-juice; those same 4 ingredients are also contained in traditional cigarettes.
I support the fact that e-cigs are a better alternative to regular cigarettes. I don't support the concept that e-cig "vapers" have the right to "vape" whenever and wherever they please as some seem to believe. I don't want e-cigs banned, I just think they should follow the same rules as regular cigarettes when it comes to being used in public places.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcleanexec
Have to love socialist liberals trying to tell everyone what to do and control your life. Hopefully the next GOP prez repeals Obamacare.
Libs, I just smoked a cuban cigar I bought in Canada.
I'm a former cigarette smoker and enjoy the occasional cigar. I've had a couple of fine Cuban's on a cruise ship. I think you should have every right to enjoy your cigar, cigarette, e-cig, etc. but I don't think you have the right to sit in a restaurant next to my family and do it. Even when I was a smoker, I supported the legislation to ban smoking in public places and recognized that non-smokers have rights as well.
I have been smoke-free for 3 years even though I never intended to give up cigarettes. Smokers are gonna smoke; shouldn't they (I) have the option to smoke something less harmful? Would you rather I suffer with smoker ailments for the rest of my life?
No. We are not talking about the legality of e cigarettes, or about banning them. That's not the debate. The discussion is about whether or not people should have the right to smoke them in public spaces like the office, restaurants, the movies, schools, trains, buses, planes, etc. etc. It's been said several times here already, yet people continue to be outraged in this thread about e cigarettes being banned or made illegal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcleanexec
Have to love socialist liberals trying to tell everyone what to do and control your life. Hopefully the next GOP prez repeals Obamacare.
Libs, I just smoked a cuban cigar I bought in Canada.
I think it's hilarious that smokers have for decades now, been able to wait it out the hour + 45 minutes for a movie, or the 30 minutes for a train ride, before lighting up their Marlboros, Camels and Winstons, yet now we have vapers insisting that they NEED to vape all the time, whenever, wherever.
M'kay.
That's great. If you want to vape on the subway or train or movie theater, I am going to fight for my right to talk on my cell phone while eating garlic curry fried kimchi fish on the subways, trains and movie theaters. Who says that's inappropriate? Obviously, the rules about cell phones and food on public transportation are a socialist liberal conspiracy to restrict free communication and deprive us of our freedom to eat whatever we want.
Knowing what we know about smoking today how dumb or weak willed do you have to be to want to start smoking, continue smoking or indulging in any form of smoking ?
As far as vaping where and when they want, most vapers are discreet and civil human beings.
They would like vaping sections, dehumidifiers if necessary, and a properly educated public that will support their choice to quit smoking. Unfortunately, prisoners have more rights than the ex-smoking vaping voter. Makes for interesting history books maybe.
"Vaping sections"...."ex-smoking vaping voters" ......Sounds absolutely hilarious when you say it out loud !!! How about we support their choice to stop smoking without all the dependent nonsense attached to it ? Maybe it's time to grow up and make responsible decisions for your life instead of being weak willed and having to inhale "vapor".....who knows what the long term affects are with dumping excessive moisture into your lungs to the point that you need humidifiers operating constantly.
As far as vaping where and when they want, most vapers are discreet and civil human beings.
They would like vaping sections, dehumidifiers if necessary, and a properly educated public that will support their choice to quit smoking. Unfortunately, prisoners have more rights than the ex-smoking vaping voter. Makes for interesting history books maybe.
Did you even read the abstract?
Quote:
Only exposures to the declared major ingredients -- propylene glycol and glycerin -- warrant attention because of precautionary nature of TLVs for exposures to hydrocarbons with no established toxicity. Comparing the exposure to nicotine to existing occupational exposure standards is not valid so long as nicotine-containing liquid is not mislabeled as nicotine-free. It must be noted that the quality of much of the data that was available for these assessment was poor, and so much can be done to improve certainty in this risk assessment. However, the existing research is of the quality that is comparable with most workplace assessments for novel technologies. In summary, an analysis of current state of knowledge about chemistry of liquids and aerosols associated with electronic cigarettes indicates that there is no evidence that vaping produces inhalable exposures to contaminants of the aerosol that would warrant health concerns by the standards that are used to ensure safety of workplaces. However, the aerosol generated during vaping as a whole (contaminants plus declared ingredients), if it were an emission from industrial process, creates personal exposures that would justify surveillance of health among exposed persons in conjunction with investigation of means to keep health effects as low as reasonably achievable.
Basically, the paper used a bunch of other studies that were admittedly poorly done to try and make some kind of conclusion. At the end of the day, risk levels for exposure do not approach those that would trigger laws impacting workplace safety standards for people in general occupations (bartender, watier, etc.). However, the vapor is not entirely benign as if it was exposure through industrial process, the workers would need to be monitored and handling precautions taken. Hardly a glowing proof that "vapers" should be allowed to indulge wherever and whenever they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eras
How about let's stop bullying others and let everyone manage their own business.
You make it my business when you choose to "vape" next to me while I'm in public. All anyone is saying is that "vapers" should follow the same regulations as smokers. Thankfully the state of NJ is ahead of the curve on this one in recognizing that there are possible health impacts from "vaping" and treating the product just like a cigarette in terms of consumption/use in public places.
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M'kay.
