What would a fair benefits/retirement system for public employees look like? (Asbury Park: appointed, private schools)
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This board is full of threads decrying everything that's wrong with public employment. However, I'd be interested to hear from folks who have problem with the current system about how they would structure it if they could. Is the answer to simply pay public employees less/make them contribute more to their healthcare? Would it be to cut the number of public employees? Rank and file? Upper management? How about retirement? Should there be any employer contribution? Should employee participation be mandatory? Would privatization of certain functions play a role?
This board is full of threads decrying everything that's wrong with public employment. However, I'd be interested to hear from folks who have problem with the current system about how they would structure it if they could. Is the answer to simply pay public employees less/make them contribute more to their healthcare? Would it be to cut the number of public employees? Rank and file? Upper management? How about retirement? Should there be any employer contribution? Should employee participation be mandatory? Would privatization of certain functions play a role?
You basically run it like a private business. That means:
1) Slashing jobs. You could probably eliminate 50% of government employees without difficulty, particularly since a bunch of them are just there to maintain the red tape of New Jersey government. Even staunchly pro-teacher types wonder why there are so many high-paid administrators. Get rid of most of them. I bet you if we listed every "public servant" in your township, your head would spin. And you're telling me they're all necessary for the existence and functioning of your township? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.
2) Cut salaries. People will howl about this, but too bad. You may argue that public servants are paid too little as it is. First of all, false (but we can discuss that later). But second of all, even if they're paid a low amount currently, it's probably more than they should be getting paid. For example, in government, as soon as you become a "director" of anything, it's guaranteed to be a six-figure income. And yet, for example, your Parks Director is probably some guy who has a high school diploma who has minimal duties and has that income because he was in the department for so long. Are we going to pretend this guy does major thinking and planning? If so, the bridge is back.
3) No pensions. Guess what, for most of human history, the rule was "you work, you get paid." It still works for the vast majority of humans on this Earth. Unless you can explain to me how public "servants" are more privileged than the people they serve, that ends.
4) Retirement packages begin. They can contribute to retirement plans, which will probably be pretty good since there are so many government employees (depending on how many I eliminated in Step 1, I guess). They can have matched contributions to a point, similar to private corporations, to encourage savings. If they don't want to contribute, that's their decision.
5) You retire whenever you want, since you're the one who pays for your retirement.
1) Slashing jobs. You could probably eliminate 50% of government employees without difficulty, particularly since a bunch of them are just there to maintain the red tape of New Jersey government. Even staunchly pro-teacher types wonder why there are so many high-paid administrators. Get rid of most of them. I bet you if we listed every "public servant" in your township, your head would spin. And you're telling me they're all necessary for the existence and functioning of your township? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.
I'm intimately familiar with how many public workers we have in my town. I wouldn't call the staffing levels excessive because we don't have very many (we're a borough of less than 4,000)-we do however have a police force with seven officers and a secretary supporting the Chief which is ridiculous. There's no earthly reason we need our own police force, nor does any town in Hunterdon County with the exception of maybe Lambertville. As for high-paid administrators in education you're spot on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pimbolo
2) Cut salaries. People will howl about this, but too bad. You may argue that public servants are paid too little as it is. First of all, false (but we can discuss that later). But second of all, even if they're paid a low amount currently, it's probably more than they should be getting paid. For example, in government, as soon as you become a "director" of anything, it's guaranteed to be a six-figure income. And yet, for example, your Parks Director is probably some guy who has a high school diploma who has minimal duties and has that income because he was in the department for so long. Are we going to pretend this guy does major thinking and planning? If so, the bridge is back.
I think you're overestimating here by a lot. Browse through APP Data Universe:
You'll find plenty of directors of X, Y, and Z who aren't making six figures or even close. As for the "Parks Director," we don't have one, but the fact of the matter is that it varies wildly because these are often either appointed positions, or supposedly competitive positions that really are appointed. Getting rid of the power of municipalities to create fiefdoms would solve that problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pimbolo
3) No pensions. Guess what, for most of human history, the rule was "you work, you get paid." It still works for the vast majority of humans on this Earth. Unless you can explain to me how public "servants" are more privileged than the people they serve, that ends.
That's up for debate I suppose. Personally I would be fine with letting public employees keep pensions if the system itself was brought under control.
Woo hoo! I used that app and immediately found a teacher in Southern NJ who makes over $75,000 for teaching Kindergarten. LMAO. This will provide me with hours of entertainment.
Woo hoo! I used that app and immediately found a teacher in Southern NJ who makes over $75,000 for teaching Kindergarten. LMAO. This will provide me with hours of entertainment.
ZING! $90,000 for PE!
$85,000 for Art!
$90,000 for School Counselor!
What would you pay them and how would you arrive at that figure?
What would you pay them and how would you arrive at that figure?
as a general rule, pay is determined by the marketplace. you could look at what someone is paid for equal work/education/experience etc. in the private sector. ultimately, you could pay less and less until you find that your compensation isnt enough to attract qualified candidates (when you are starting from the high end). thats basically how we determine pay at work, what must you pay in order to hire and retain the employees you need.
as a general rule, pay is determined by the marketplace. you could look at what someone is paid for equal work/education/experience etc. in the private sector. ultimately, you could pay less and less until you find that your compensation isnt enough to attract qualified candidates (when you are starting from the high end). thats basically how we determine pay at work, what must you pay in order to hire and retain the employees you need.
It's kind of tough to do with teachers though isn't it? The number of public school jobs will always far outweigh the number of private school jobs even in a state like NJ with a lot of private schools, which will skew the numbers.
There is only one truly fair way to pay- piece work and commission.
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