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Old 06-29-2016, 12:12 PM
 
1,364 posts, read 1,116,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldusMagnus View Post
Here's youth unemployment in Europe with/without min wage.

That's stupid.

First: The Scandinavian countries don't have a general minimum wage, but they have negotiated minimum wages in each industry. And those minimum wages are very high.

Second: Germany has by far the lowest youth unemployment but has the second highest minimum wage (ppp adjusted) in the EU.
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Old 06-29-2016, 01:12 PM
 
1,364 posts, read 1,116,114 times
Reputation: 1053
It's pretty simple.

The hourly minimum wage should be equal to the price of an average 12-inch pizza with 3 toppings (including tax and tip).

Here is the menu from a pizzeria in Camden:

http://riccardospizza.com/wp-content...cardos2015.pdf

Plain pizza, medium: $9.90
Each topping: $1.70
Pizza with 3 toppings: $15.00 + tax + tip, that's maybe $17.00

The intended minimum wage of $15.00 seems a little bit low. Or maybe the prices for pizza in Camden are extraordinary high. Maybe Camden is a very expensive upscale suburb of Philadelphia? I don't know


I have googled other pizza places. They should definitely raise the hourly minimum wage to $15. Everything below is exploitation.
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Old 06-29-2016, 02:15 PM
 
168 posts, read 128,922 times
Reputation: 153
I'd be okay with $12/hr, but 15$/hr is too much.
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Old 06-29-2016, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania & New Jersey
1,548 posts, read 4,316,442 times
Reputation: 1769
Default Plain Pizza

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukas1973 View Post
It's pretty simple.
The hourly minimum wage should be equal to the price of an average 12-inch pizza with 3 toppings (including tax and tip).
Here is the menu from a pizzeria in Camden:
http://riccardospizza.com/wp-content...cardos2015.pdf
Plain pizza, medium: $9.90
Each topping: $1.70
Pizza with 3 toppings: $15.00 + tax + tip, that's maybe $17.00
The intended minimum wage of $15.00 seems a little bit low. Or maybe the prices for pizza in Camden are extraordinary high. Maybe Camden is a very expensive upscale suburb of Philadelphia? I don't know
I have googled other pizza places. They should definitely raise the hourly minimum wage to $15. Everything below is exploitation.
Do I still have to pay $15 if I don't want the toppings? What if the pizzeria is out of toppings and all they've got is plain pie? Still $15 plus tax and tip?
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:03 PM
 
712 posts, read 530,438 times
Reputation: 725
I'm all for 15. The problem is that it doesn't solve the problems. 15/hour will quickly equalize to 7/hour as the cost of housing/goods goes up. There will simply be an inflationary effect. Without some type of cost controls over rent(which is totally out of control) there is no point in raising the wages because it will accomplish nothing.

They should have capped rents years ago. In other words you can't rent out an studio apartment for more than 30% monthly minimum wage outside of nyc. No reason for nj to be so expensive. This would stop speculative investment on apartment buildings and create affordable housing. Combine that with government building apartment buildings to ease demand and you solve a big portion of this problem. The reason people are calling for 15/hour is mostly due to outrageous rents. A small percentage of people have gotten very rich off the backs of others. The free market doesn't work for basic housing. You can absolutely run an apartment building when people are paying 350/month for a studio. You simply buy the building for less. Just look the mid west as an example.
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:13 PM
 
4,416 posts, read 9,141,500 times
Reputation: 4318
I think $11 is a reasonable compromise. The problem is cost of living. This is a Socialist idea, but it must be done. On a Federal level, Property owners should be restricted on what to charge renters. $525 a month for a 1br and $650 for a 2 br should be a uniform maximum price.
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Old 06-29-2016, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Bergen County, NJ
4,029 posts, read 3,639,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loose cannon View Post
On a Federal level, Property owners should be restricted on what to charge renters. $525 a month for a 1br and $650 for a 2 br should be a uniform maximum price.

You're suggesting landlords rent their apartments at a huge loss?
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Old 06-30-2016, 04:36 AM
 
712 posts, read 530,438 times
Reputation: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonCoNJ View Post
You're suggesting landlords rent their apartments at a huge loss?
If rent was restricted decades ago and government helped build apartment complexes(right now they give millions to section 8 which goes directly to property owners) then it wouldn't be at a huge loss because the building they bought would be worth WAY less(they wouldn't have a big mortage payment on the property/lower initial investment) and their property taxes would be WAY less. Certain areas like manhattan you could leave unrestricted due to extreme demand/lack of land, but the whole metro area is out of control.

The fact is there is clearly a cancer spreading of high cost housing due to greedy complex owners jacking up rent every year non stop for decades realizing the higher they can charge for rent, the higher the value of their building when they sell as well increased monthly income. If you've got millions sitting around, why build a new non luxury apartment building when you can just jack existing rents up. They don't build apartment complexes to keep up with demand. Control supply of a necessity and increase prices. The large complexes generally set the market rate. Not one guy renting out his basement or a little 4 plex. Very few people have the means to build an apartment complex so it's almost like a monopoly controlled by very wealthy people. People end up getting priced out, but what does the landlord care? Make money while you sleep. This increased housing costs put tremendous pressure on the economy and cause people to live further from where they work in many cases which means higher road costs(taxes to maintain and build).

One important point is that housing is an absolute necessity. It's not like a piece of electronics that you can CHOOSE not to buy. Free market absolutely works for that. They have you by the balls when it comes to a basic roof over your head. It's worse than the cable company. You can CHOOSE to cut the cord or switch to satellite. What are you going to choose, a park bench to sleep on instead of an apartment?
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Old 06-30-2016, 08:14 AM
 
789 posts, read 702,914 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondtheHorizon View Post
If rent was restricted decades ago and government helped build apartment complexes(right now they give millions to section 8 which goes directly to property owners) then it wouldn't be at a huge loss because the building they bought would be worth WAY less(they wouldn't have a big mortage payment on the property/lower initial investment) and their property taxes would be WAY less. Certain areas like manhattan you could leave unrestricted due to extreme demand/lack of land, but the whole metro area is out of control.

The fact is there is clearly a cancer spreading of high cost housing due to greedy complex owners jacking up rent every year non stop for decades realizing the higher they can charge for rent, the higher the value of their building when they sell as well increased monthly income. If you've got millions sitting around, why build a new non luxury apartment building when you can just jack existing rents up. They don't build apartment complexes to keep up with demand. Control supply of a necessity and increase prices. The large complexes generally set the market rate. Not one guy renting out his basement or a little 4 plex. Very few people have the means to build an apartment complex so it's almost like a monopoly controlled by very wealthy people. People end up getting priced out, but what does the landlord care? Make money while you sleep. This increased housing costs put tremendous pressure on the economy and cause people to live further from where they work in many cases which means higher road costs(taxes to maintain and build).

One important point is that housing is an absolute necessity. It's not like a piece of electronics that you can CHOOSE not to buy. Free market absolutely works for that. They have you by the balls when it comes to a basic roof over your head. It's worse than the cable company. You can CHOOSE to cut the cord or switch to satellite. What are you going to choose, a park bench to sleep on instead of an apartment?
Reading this it becomes apparent that some people simply do not understand economics at a very rudimentary level. Wow.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:04 AM
 
712 posts, read 530,438 times
Reputation: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldusMagnus View Post
Reading this it becomes apparent that some people simply do not understand economics at a very rudimentary level. Wow.
You can have "cost fixing" in any economy. It's called a price fixing/cost control regulation. It has nothing to do with "understanding" economics. It's simply applying a socialist regulation and taking out the free market in a certain sector. In fact, in certain cities they have "rent control". The problem is that the apartment is tied to the tenant in most cases so as soon as they leave the rent skyrockets. In many cases they're bought out. We also have section 8 vouchers and other programs. It would be less costly to simply cap rent right across the board and get the government involved in housing on a larger scale. There are already public housing complexes, but it's a tiny fraction of apartments. There are many police/fireman that are basically in welfare housing in nyc. This is a reality. It would be way cheaper for government/citizens to simply cost fix apartments. Let the free market do it's thing in other sectors. 100 percent socialism(you can't own your own house/massive red tape) of course doesn't work. Again, you can find markets where apartments go for 400/month and the landlord makes money. It's just a matter of providing housing for low income/lower-middle income people, which the free market has no interest in. It's just 4 walls. It doesn't need to cost so much unless you have someone who wants to make a lot of money(landlord). They've been economically raping people for years like this. Raising rents when they are already making a profit. People have made a FORTUNE doing this, while others struggle. It's a small percentage versus the masses.

It comes down to greed and speculative investing on apartments. Plain and simple. It leads to calls for a 15/hour minimum wage. It leads to lower quality of life for citizens and less money being infused into other sectors of the economy. It's horrible and needs to be fixed. Forget ideology and deal with reality. No reason in hell a 1 bed basic no frills apartment 1 to 2 hours from nyc should be going for 1400-2000 month when the min wage is where it's at. Outrageous. If you raise the min wage, OTHER people's wages will go up in proportion and apartments will go up as well. Inflationary effect.
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